11. Law & Order: Special Metaverse Unit

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Welcome to the meta woman podcast we address the

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issues, opportunities and challenges facing women in the

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development of the metaverse the biggest revolution since the

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internet itself. Every week we bring you conversations with top

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female talent and business executives operating in the

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gaming and crypto industries. Here's your host Lindsey, the

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boss pass. The metal woman podcast starts now.

Lindsay Poss: 00:00:24

Hello, and welcome to the metal woman podcast part

Lindsay Poss: 00:00:27

of the holodeck media Podcast Network. I'm your host Lindsay

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the boss pass from struggle to success. We're covering it all.

Lindsay Poss: 00:00:34

To our returning listeners. Thank you so much for supporting

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the show. Leave those five star ratings and reviews you already

Lindsay Poss: 00:00:39

know what to do tell a friend about the pod. For new

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listeners. Welcome. I hope you enjoy. We have a great guest

Lindsay Poss: 00:00:45

this week, if any of you also listen to the business of

Lindsay Poss: 00:00:48

esports. You have heard her before in a wonderful episode

Lindsay Poss: 00:00:51

that I highly recommend checking out as well. We have a Nita

Lindsay Poss: 00:00:54

Sharma, founder of Sharma law, which specializes in

Lindsay Poss: 00:00:57

entertainment, talent, representation, intellectual

Lindsay Poss: 00:01:00

property, digital media production, legal and corporate

Lindsay Poss: 00:01:03

commercial law, which has a whole lot of specialties, which

Lindsay Poss: 00:01:07

is awesome. Anita, welcome to the show. To start, please feel

Lindsay Poss: 00:01:11

free to introduce yourself. Tell us a couple sentences about your

Lindsay Poss: 00:01:14

background. Let the audience get to know you a little.

Unknown: 00:01:17

Sure. Yeah, I mean, I'm excited to be here. So thank you

Unknown: 00:01:19

so much for inviting me, Lindsay, you did a great job,

Unknown: 00:01:22

sort of summing up the firm and all those different areas. So

Unknown: 00:01:26

thank you for that. So, um, like Lindsay said, my name is Anita

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Sharma, I'm an attorney and be set in New York City. I'm an

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entertainment lawyer. And I've been doing this for about 20

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years. So it's been a long time and you know, started out in

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traditional so to speak film and TV and we really turned our

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focus to digital in about 2013. So, you know, excited to speak

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to you about all things digital gaming, the metaverse, entities

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the whole works.

Lindsay Poss: 00:01:54

Yes, they think that's gonna be so much fun. As

Lindsay Poss: 00:01:58

I was sort of lamenting to you before the show, I in covering

Lindsay Poss: 00:02:02

the metaverse, it's been very interesting, because I don't

Lindsay Poss: 00:02:05

really have a set definition for what it is. And I don't think

Lindsay Poss: 00:02:08

anyone else does either. And of course, Facebook changing its

Lindsay Poss: 00:02:11

name has shifted the conversation, but we will get to

Lindsay Poss: 00:02:15

all of that. I'm excited to talk about it with you. I would love

Lindsay Poss: 00:02:18

to start a little bit with your background in representing

Lindsay Poss: 00:02:21

gaming and esports talent, what that looks like for you what

Lindsay Poss: 00:02:24

your motivations were and starting to represent those

Lindsay Poss: 00:02:27

folks. And what it's just generally like to represent that

Lindsay Poss: 00:02:30

type of content creator.

Unknown: 00:02:32

Yeah, so my firm, we primarily represent talents, and

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primarily in digital media, so a lot of influencers, digital

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content creators, and now gamers. And so we really started

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in the influencer space. And like I mentioned before, back in

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2013, we were one of the first firms to really start

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representing influencers. And I also like to call them digital

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content creators, because I feel like influencers just like

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turned into such a dirty word now. And people like think like,

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it's just, you know, flaky people taking photos of

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themselves all day on Instagram, whereas our clients are actually

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creating like, incredibly compelling, you know, content on

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the internet and on their social media platforms and elsewhere.

Unknown: 00:03:15

And so, am I often use the term digital content creator. So, you

Unknown: 00:03:19

know, we started back when I think people started to realize,

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I think he was ranted as 13 that, that Social Media and

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Gaming, were actually businesses and you could build businesses

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from them. And it wasn't just all about cat videos was like,

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you could actually create amazing content. And so, you

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know, in starting there, and getting to where we are today,

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you know, it was really last year that we started to turn our

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focus to gamers and esports. And really looking at that and

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saying it's really a logical extension of our practice,

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right? You know, people are talking to us about Twitch all

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the time, we're looking at what's happening there. It's

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talent, you know, games are talent, as well. And, you know,

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the first deal I did was, you know, for gamer who was joining

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FaZe Clan. And so that was kind of starting at the top. So that

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was incredibly interesting to me. And working through that

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contract and seeing what was there and, and so I think, you

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know, gamers are entertainers as well. And we like to represent

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entertainers and creative people. And so again, it was

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just a logical extension of the practice but also just an

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incredibly interesting worlds.

Lindsay Poss: 00:04:29

Yeah, that's a really cool kind of way of

Lindsay Poss: 00:04:33

transitioning into that. And I can't believe that your first

Lindsay Poss: 00:04:36

deal was FaZe Clan member. That's awesome. That is kind of

Lindsay Poss: 00:04:40

that is a very high level very well known place to start, which

Lindsay Poss: 00:04:45

is awesome. Do you mainly in you can let me know if you can't

Lindsay Poss: 00:04:49

speak about this. But do you mainly do like Team contracts

Lindsay Poss: 00:04:52

and deals? Are you looking at content creation or is it a mix

Lindsay Poss: 00:04:55

of both or when specifically with these kind of gaming

Lindsay Poss: 00:04:58

digital creators? What is Is the What's your majority client look

Lindsay Poss: 00:05:03

like? Yeah,

Unknown: 00:05:03

sure, I can definitely speak to it. So we are doing all

Unknown: 00:05:06

kinds of contracts. So ranging from doing brand and sponsorship

Unknown: 00:05:10

deals, to merch contracts, and to some team contracts and

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events, you know. So it's really like across the board, whatever

Unknown: 00:05:20

legal need comes up for the game or the talent. But we also do

Unknown: 00:05:23

trademark work, for example, and a lot of, you know, gamers

Unknown: 00:05:27

haven't thought about trademarking handles and things

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like that. So we advise on that, you know, that area of IP. But

Unknown: 00:05:34

yeah, basically, we're general counsel to our clients, right.

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So anything that comes up legal wise, that they need we help

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with, and we work with their teams, if they have a team if

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they have an agent, or a manager, or both, like we work,

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you know, within that team, and it's really about helping, you

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know, gamers, build businesses and elevate their profiles and

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build their brands. And I think, you know, that's happening more

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and more. Now. Gaming has been around for a very long time. But

Unknown: 00:05:59

I think it's only now I feel like the gaming industry is

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where the influencer industry was in 2013. I feel like it's

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now starting to realize this is a business gamers are starting

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to understand. I need, you know, representation, I need help with

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contracts, and are starting to you know, that structure is

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starting to sort of be introduced to the gaming worlds.

Lindsay Poss: 00:06:23

Oh, I would love to ask you a little bit more

Lindsay Poss: 00:06:25

about that. How, what has changed for the influencing

Lindsay Poss: 00:06:29

industry between 2013 I think is when you said 2012 2013. And now

Lindsay Poss: 00:06:35

and then how do you see that change? Or that those similar

Lindsay Poss: 00:06:39

changes being incorporated into gaming? Yeah, I

Unknown: 00:06:43

mean, I think it's really all about people

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realizing that social media is a platform on which they can build

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businesses. So they have their social media platforms, just

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like gamers would have Twitch, but they can actually do a whole

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bunch of other stuff, right, built on that platform or built

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from that platform. So they could start to do merch they can

Unknown: 00:07:04

start to do you know, content creation deals with other

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companies, and obviously, the sponsorships brand deals. But I

Unknown: 00:07:10

feel like now in the influencer world, even though it's still

Unknown: 00:07:12

the Wild West, don't get me wrong. But it's definitely

Unknown: 00:07:16

there's more agencies out there. There's more agents

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representing, you know, influencers, managers, like all

Unknown: 00:07:22

of the big agencies are obviously involved. CHW mme, UTA

Unknown: 00:07:27

three everybody at the same was, you know, they also have gaming

Unknown: 00:07:30

divisions. So it's like these structures, and these, you know,

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people and represented representatives are sort of

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coming on board now, and are saying, Look, let me help you,

Unknown: 00:07:40

because we see the potential here. And it's sort of, you

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know, becoming more streamlined and sort of more in line with

Unknown: 00:07:47

like, common business practices.

Lindsay Poss: 00:07:49

Gotcha. That makes sense. In speaking of social

Lindsay Poss: 00:07:52

media, what are the kind of crossovers that you see between

Lindsay Poss: 00:07:57

your gaming influencers? And your social media content

Lindsay Poss: 00:07:59

producers are? There's, there's obviously a link between the

Lindsay Poss: 00:08:03

two, and we all know that at face value, but from your

Lindsay Poss: 00:08:06

perspective, what are the positives and negatives? What

Lindsay Poss: 00:08:10

does it mean for gaming to be moving more into this social

Lindsay Poss: 00:08:14

media type of space? I would love to just get your thoughts

Lindsay Poss: 00:08:17

on on that kind of that the link between those two?

Unknown: 00:08:20

Yeah, I mean, I think that I think it's all the same,

Unknown: 00:08:23

to be honest, like Twitch is a social media platform. So it

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just happens to be the platform that most gamers are on. Right.

Unknown: 00:08:30

So but those gamers have followers, people comment

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people, you know, watching the same way that someone would

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watch, you know, an Instagram real or or scroll through

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somebody's Instagram page. So I don't, I don't see like a

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distinction there. I think that, you know, gamers are also social

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media personalities. And they're just the platform is different,

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right? Because their platform is tWitch, mainly. So it's, I don't

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necessarily see, like, a distinction between the two. In

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terms of crossover. It's sort of like, you know, I think a lot of

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gamers don't have a presence on other platforms. But I do see

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that changing now. Right? I think it's, as these gamers

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become more personalities and more sort of brands, no, they

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become brands themselves. It's like they're venturing onto

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different platforms. And I'm definitely seeing that

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happening. I mean, in terms of negatives, it's sort of like,

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it's, you know, the negatives that you see with all the

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platforms and anyone you know, putting themselves out there on

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any of these platforms is just you know, the trolls, you know,

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racism sexism, I mean, that's definitely sadly is not that

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away. And you know, that's a huge negative because obviously,

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we know on the internet, everybody's anonymous, so you

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can be anonymous, I should say, definitely be anonymous. So

Unknown: 00:09:47

it's, that's that's an issue that sadly, is not going away

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and I know a lot of gamers and especially female gamers and

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gamers of color. LGBTQ gamers have really suffered because of

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that and it's really unfortunate

Lindsay Poss: 00:10:01

Yeah, that's definitely. I mean, there's all

Lindsay Poss: 00:10:04

kinds of policy and legislation being talked about with that.

Lindsay Poss: 00:10:07

Unfortunately, I think it's just, there's no good kind of

Lindsay Poss: 00:10:11

policy solution for that. And I think big companies are trying

Lindsay Poss: 00:10:14

to figure it out. And I would, I would really like to get kind of

Lindsay Poss: 00:10:18

your opinion on what big companies are doing as well,

Lindsay Poss: 00:10:21

because you talk about influencers, moving cross

Lindsay Poss: 00:10:25

platform and doing all of that, there is still and we've seen

Lindsay Poss: 00:10:29

this, I'm mainly thinking about Doctor disrespect here, who was

Lindsay Poss: 00:10:32

banned from twitch. And he then has had definitely a resurgence

Lindsay Poss: 00:10:37

and a big following on other social media platforms. But from

Lindsay Poss: 00:10:42

a legal perspective, when you're thinking about your clients, how

Lindsay Poss: 00:10:46

are you thinking about the power that platforms have? Of course,

Lindsay Poss: 00:10:50

it's a First Amendment right for platforms to be able to keep and

Lindsay Poss: 00:10:53

get rid of whomever they would like. But are you kind of

Lindsay Poss: 00:10:57

thinking about pushing clients to use multiple platforms? In

Lindsay Poss: 00:11:00

case there's some type of violation? It could be even a

Lindsay Poss: 00:11:05

non toxic type of violation? Are you thinking that it's, it's

Lindsay Poss: 00:11:10

good to kind of go all in with certain platforms that have

Lindsay Poss: 00:11:14

better or clear rules and restrictions? What are you

Lindsay Poss: 00:11:16

thinking about the relationship between creators and platforms

Lindsay Poss: 00:11:20

and kind of the power dynamic between the two?

Unknown: 00:11:23

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of creators stuff, burnout,

Unknown: 00:11:26

or just creating on one platform, you know, or streaming

Unknown: 00:11:30

on one platform, I mean, I think it's not really my place to tell

Unknown: 00:11:34

the client like, oh, you should be three different platforms and

Unknown: 00:11:37

be creating all this content. I mean, I think it really depends

Unknown: 00:11:40

on the individual themselves, right, and how much content that

Unknown: 00:11:42

they want to create. I think that, in a way, we're lucky that

Unknown: 00:11:48

there are platforms out there, if you do get kicked off, one,

Unknown: 00:11:51

you can go to another platform. And hopefully, you were kicked

Unknown: 00:11:54

off for the wrong reasons, and not the right reasons. You know,

Unknown: 00:11:58

if you're kicking off or making like, terrible, you know,

Unknown: 00:12:01

remarks, vote people, etc. We don't necessarily want you on

Unknown: 00:12:05

another platform. But I do think like Facebook, gaming is

Unknown: 00:12:10

aggressively going after gamers, YouTube Gaming is aggressively

Unknown: 00:12:13

going after gamers and trying to get them to sign on with them.

Unknown: 00:12:15

So it's a good thing. There's other platforms for sure. But

Unknown: 00:12:18

again, like I wouldn't tell my clients if you need to be on a

Unknown: 00:12:21

bunch of platforms. I mean, it's just it really is up to them.

Lindsay Poss: 00:12:25

That makes sense. Yeah, it was ensure, from, from

Lindsay Poss: 00:12:28

your experience, and from the people you've worked with, if it

Lindsay Poss: 00:12:31

was, I don't know better or worse to be on multiple. But the

Lindsay Poss: 00:12:35

the burnout part is definitely real.

Unknown: 00:12:37

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, most of my clients are on more

Unknown: 00:12:40

than one platform. You know, at least two if not three, but it

Unknown: 00:12:46

is like, you know, now tick tock, obviously, is huge, and

Unknown: 00:12:49

the pressure to be there on tick tock So, but it is, I mean, it's

Unknown: 00:12:53

creating a ton of content constantly, every single day.

Unknown: 00:12:55

And that's, that's tough. So I think that's, you know,

Unknown: 00:12:57

something people are keeping in mind as they're thinking about

Unknown: 00:13:00

all these different platforms.

Lindsay Poss: 00:13:03

When taking a step back to when creators are

Lindsay Poss: 00:13:05

actually getting started. When do you recommend or when do you

Lindsay Poss: 00:13:10

think I don't recommend is the right word, because I don't

Lindsay Poss: 00:13:13

expect you to give free legal advice here. But at what level?

Lindsay Poss: 00:13:16

Do you think creators and influencers should start

Lindsay Poss: 00:13:19

bringing on legal support services? Or are you seeing that

Lindsay Poss: 00:13:23

a lot of people maybe aren't bringing them on and winding up?

Lindsay Poss: 00:13:27

Kind of regretting it or, or taking or moving backwards a

Lindsay Poss: 00:13:31

little bit later? What does that look like for content creators

Lindsay Poss: 00:13:36

out there who may be listening? Yeah,

Unknown: 00:13:38

I mean, this is a question I get asked so

Unknown: 00:13:40

commonly, and I feel like it's just the most popular question,

Unknown: 00:13:44

especially for talent. So I mean, it's, sadly, we do often

Unknown: 00:13:50

come in after the fact right, so we will come in because somebody

Unknown: 00:13:53

has signed something. And they're like, I signed this, and

Unknown: 00:13:57

I want to get out of it. What is this? They're telling me, No,

Unknown: 00:14:00

they own all my content, or whatever. So we do try to do

Unknown: 00:14:04

some damage control there. I understand. You know, it's

Unknown: 00:14:07

intimidating, it's intimidating to think about hiring a lawyer,

Unknown: 00:14:09

people think they're going to be paying 1000s and 1000s of

Unknown: 00:14:12

dollars in fees. And, and I understand that, but at the same

Unknown: 00:14:15

time, if you are serious about building a business, about

Unknown: 00:14:19

elevating your brand and all those, you know, all that other

Unknown: 00:14:22

great stuff. The second you have a contract in front of you, you

Unknown: 00:14:26

should have an attorney review that contract because even the

Unknown: 00:14:30

boilerplate the legal boilerplate within it affects

Unknown: 00:14:33

your rights and it imposes obligations on you. And because

Unknown: 00:14:37

you're creating your own content as talent it's so important to

Unknown: 00:14:40

protect that you know, and to make sure just can't use it any

Unknown: 00:14:44

way they want for like minimal compensation. So I would say you

Unknown: 00:14:47

know, when you get those that first piece of paperwork, it

Unknown: 00:14:50

would be good to like consult with somebody and you know, get

Unknown: 00:14:53

some help with it and there will be upfront costs, but there's

Unknown: 00:14:57

upfront possibility business no matter what that businesses. So

Unknown: 00:15:01

it's just absolutely, you know, consider and hopefully, you

Unknown: 00:15:04

know, you can find an attorney that can help them be

Unknown: 00:15:06

affordable. But I do think it's really important.

Lindsay Poss: 00:15:10

I like that you brought up specifically signing

Lindsay Poss: 00:15:12

contracts, because I think that's a very easy marker for a

Lindsay Poss: 00:15:16

lot of people looking to get into the industry. And I'm so

Lindsay Poss: 00:15:19

glad I could ask you the questions that you've been asked

Lindsay Poss: 00:15:22

20 times already?

Unknown: 00:15:24

No, it definitely always finds you know, and it's

Unknown: 00:15:29

so interesting. I totally get it.

Lindsay Poss: 00:15:33

Well, speaking of things that are on the mind, a

Lindsay Poss: 00:15:36

couple months ago, you wrote an opinion piece on Twitch and DMCA

Lindsay Poss: 00:15:41

takedowns. We'll link to it in the show notes. People can check

Lindsay Poss: 00:15:45

it out, if they want to read the whole thing. But for those of

Lindsay Poss: 00:15:49

you that aren't familiar, I'm going to read a quick scenario

Lindsay Poss: 00:15:52

that I need to actually wrote to describe a DMCA takedown. If you

Lindsay Poss: 00:15:56

don't know the acronym, DMCA, please just Google it. At this

Lindsay Poss: 00:16:00

point, I almost feel like it's part of the vernacular because

Lindsay Poss: 00:16:02

it's been around for a while. But this this scenario is that a

Lindsay Poss: 00:16:06

twitch user plays a third party copyrighted song in the

Lindsay Poss: 00:16:09

background while they stream, the copyright holder of the song

Lindsay Poss: 00:16:13

finds out in sense Twitch DMCA takedown notification,

Lindsay Poss: 00:16:17

generally, without warning to the alleged infringing Twitch

Lindsay Poss: 00:16:20

user. Once the complaint has been verified, Twitch will

Lindsay Poss: 00:16:24

remove the allegedly infringing content and issue a DMCA notice

Lindsay Poss: 00:16:28

to take down the allegedly infringing Twitch user. So

Lindsay Poss: 00:16:31

essentially, is people having their content removed for things

Lindsay Poss: 00:16:34

like playing music in the background when they might not

Lindsay Poss: 00:16:37

realize that's a copyright violation. So in addition to

Lindsay Poss: 00:16:41

this article, you've done more work on how this type of action

Lindsay Poss: 00:16:45

from a platform to a content creator can be really damaging.

Lindsay Poss: 00:16:48

I was wondering if you could speak more about how you handle

Lindsay Poss: 00:16:52

these scenarios with your clients and what creators can do

Lindsay Poss: 00:16:55

to protect themselves from having this happen to

Unknown: 00:16:57

them? Sure, yeah. I mean, it's, it's tough. It's a

Unknown: 00:17:01

really tough situation. Because, you know, twitch in particular,

Unknown: 00:17:06

is a platform I don't think has been helpful to users at all.

Unknown: 00:17:10

twitches, oh, my Amazon, it's unbelievable to be that Amazon

Unknown: 00:17:14

has Amazon music. And somehow there is some deal there that

Unknown: 00:17:17

helps creators use music, you know, where there is a catalog

Unknown: 00:17:20

of music, they can use it, our current hits, like we're not

Unknown: 00:17:23

talking about, you know, stock music from decades. We're

Unknown: 00:17:28

talking

Lindsay Poss: 00:17:28

about such a good point. Yeah, I have the ability.

Lindsay Poss: 00:17:32

Yeah, exactly.

Unknown: 00:17:33

So I mean, I don't know, I'm just speaking, I don't

Unknown: 00:17:35

know what's going on behind the scenes there. Like how it works.

Unknown: 00:17:39

But my point is, from an outsider's perspective, and as a

Unknown: 00:17:42

lawyer who represents creators and talent and gamers, it's,

Unknown: 00:17:46

it's frustrating, right? Because they should really be helping

Unknown: 00:17:51

gamers, use music, be able to use music and the way that they

Unknown: 00:17:54

do that, as they make a deal with music companies. And

Unknown: 00:17:57

Facebook has done that already. You know, YouTube has to deal

Unknown: 00:18:01

with music company. So it's, it's the bottom line is this if

Unknown: 00:18:04

you cannot use third party copyrighted content in your

Unknown: 00:18:07

content, and that includes music, and it's, you know, I

Unknown: 00:18:11

always tell clients that, you know, I explained it this way,

Unknown: 00:18:14

how would you feel if somebody took some of your IP, something

Unknown: 00:18:17

you created, whether it's a stream or video or photo, and

Unknown: 00:18:21

just used it without a credit to you, or any compensation you are

Unknown: 00:18:26

without reaching out to you, right? You would probably be

Unknown: 00:18:30

kind of annoyed with that, right? You might not want you

Unknown: 00:18:32

might not say, Well, you might not go after the legally, but it

Unknown: 00:18:35

would be annoying, it would be like that's your work, right?

Unknown: 00:18:38

That they've just they're using in their brain fitting

Unknown: 00:18:40

commercially. So I advise my clients not to use third party

Unknown: 00:18:45

music and their content and to be aware of that, or any kind of

Unknown: 00:18:48

third party IP. And, you know, that's just the way it is, I

Unknown: 00:18:52

think, people think, for some reason that the internet or you

Unknown: 00:18:57

know, the blockchain and these different things that IP laws

Unknown: 00:19:00

don't apply. And, you know, for better or worse they do, they do

Unknown: 00:19:04

still apply. And so, you know, for me, the solution is for

Unknown: 00:19:08

Twitch to make a deal with the labels and music companies like

Unknown: 00:19:12

other platforms have and help their users, you know, access

Unknown: 00:19:19

legally.

Lindsay Poss: 00:19:20

Are there any kind of those systemic changes that

Lindsay Poss: 00:19:24

you think would help creators in the future avoid this kind of

Lindsay Poss: 00:19:27

infringement and also give give credit to the people that

Lindsay Poss: 00:19:30

they're using IP from as well.

Unknown: 00:19:35

So by systemic changes, DB changes within the platform

Unknown: 00:19:39

themselves?

Lindsay Poss: 00:19:40

Yeah. changes within the platforms. Yeah. Or

Lindsay Poss: 00:19:43

within rules of use, or? Yeah, it's hard for me to Yeah, but

Lindsay Poss: 00:19:49

let's stick with those within the platforms. Yeah.

Unknown: 00:19:52

I mean, it's like a set. I mean, the only way that

Unknown: 00:19:56

you could use somebody else's IP is if you have a license to use

Unknown: 00:19:59

that Right, or like they've given you permission in some

Unknown: 00:20:03

way, or they decide rights to you or something like that. So

Unknown: 00:20:06

it's, there's really nothing like a platform do in terms of

Unknown: 00:20:11

its Terms of Use except for, you know, obtain those licenses to

Unknown: 00:20:17

allow users use third party IP, like music, and they're in a

Unknown: 00:20:21

position to do that. And they make billions of dollars. And

Unknown: 00:20:25

there, they can do it. So I don't know what's preventing it

Unknown: 00:20:28

from happening. Like I said, I'm not privy to any of those

Unknown: 00:20:31

conversations or anything, but I'm very curious as to why it's

Unknown: 00:20:33

not happening. And it's, again, coming from the talent side,

Unknown: 00:20:38

it's infuriating, because without the talent, there would

Unknown: 00:20:42

be no channel, you know? So that's kind of it's frustrating,

Unknown: 00:20:47

for sure. Yeah, well, in

Lindsay Poss: 00:20:50

you, you've spoken quite a bit about the talent

Lindsay Poss: 00:20:52

side and about the creative process and how you're really

Lindsay Poss: 00:20:57

looking to support artists. And you yourself have a pretty

Lindsay Poss: 00:21:01

illustrious background in creative pursuits, including

Lindsay Poss: 00:21:04

producing films that have premiered at festivals and were

Lindsay Poss: 00:21:07

picked up for distribution, How has being in the creative

Lindsay Poss: 00:21:12

process and your background in that helped you understand not

Lindsay Poss: 00:21:16

only the games clients that you might bring on, but some of the

Lindsay Poss: 00:21:18

other digital creators that you're working with?

Unknown: 00:21:21

Well, you're very kind. First of all, it's called

Unknown: 00:21:23

illustrious, I don't know if that but the thing, how many

Lindsay Poss: 00:21:28

people can say with that they've done anything

Lindsay Poss: 00:21:30

in film production, give yourself some credit,

Unknown: 00:21:34

shape that that's very kind of you. So we so I've been

Unknown: 00:21:38

practicing law for a while for within about eight or nine

Unknown: 00:21:41

years, and I was sort of disillusioned a little bit, and

Unknown: 00:21:45

I, you know, done the big firms thing, and was just like, not

Unknown: 00:21:49

loving the law or being a lawyer. And so I was always

Unknown: 00:21:53

interested in, you know, the creative process and working

Unknown: 00:21:56

with creative people and producing. And so I went back to

Unknown: 00:21:59

film school in Canada, where I'm from, and, you know, did this

Unknown: 00:22:04

program called the producers Lab, which was just amazing, and

Unknown: 00:22:07

life changing, you know, and all of a sudden, I was sitting on

Unknown: 00:22:10

the other side of the table in the sense that I was the talent,

Unknown: 00:22:14

you know, I was the creative person working with other

Unknown: 00:22:16

creative people in order to produce film and film had always

Unknown: 00:22:19

been my first love. So it was just such a dream come true. You

Unknown: 00:22:22

know, and that was an amazing experience. And I think, you

Unknown: 00:22:25

know, I graduated from that program. And I did, you know,

Unknown: 00:22:28

the first short, I produced, you know, premiered at the Toronto

Unknown: 00:22:31

Film Festival, which was exciting and made its way around

Unknown: 00:22:34

the worlds different festivals, and produced an indie feature

Unknown: 00:22:37

that got picked up by each one. And that was all exciting and

Unknown: 00:22:40

amazing. And I realized, at the end of the day, that I didn't

Unknown: 00:22:45

love being a hands on producer on a daily basis, and I but I

Unknown: 00:22:49

really loved business and legal aspects of creating things. And

Unknown: 00:22:53

that was where my strength was, and my passion was, and so, you

Unknown: 00:22:56

know, I went back to law, I would, I would love to produce,

Unknown: 00:22:59

if I just had the bandwidth, it's so hard to sort of do

Unknown: 00:23:01

everything I'm hoping to get back to it, because I, I would

Unknown: 00:23:05

love to executive produce, you know, it's not him not producing

Unknown: 00:23:08

every day, but putting projects together and stuff, I would love

Unknown: 00:23:10

to get back to that. But you know, it's, it's helpful,

Unknown: 00:23:14

because, first of all, you know, I understood what it felt to be

Unknown: 00:23:17

vulnerable, you know, it's near the lawyer, you're not

Unknown: 00:23:21

vulnerable, like, you have all the answers, people are slightly

Unknown: 00:23:24

intimidated by you. But in this case, I was putting myself on

Unknown: 00:23:28

the other side of the table, and really, you know, my ideas were

Unknown: 00:23:32

under scrutiny, you know, I was getting feedback, it was when

Unknown: 00:23:35

you're a creative, this is what happens, you know, people tell

Unknown: 00:23:38

you about new give you feedback on your content and your ideas.

Unknown: 00:23:42

And, and I feel like that really gives me a great understanding

Unknown: 00:23:46

of my clients and the passion to really advocate for them,

Unknown: 00:23:51

because I understood what it feels like, and also how hard it

Unknown: 00:23:55

is to create content. I mean, they all make it look so easy,

Unknown: 00:23:59

but it's hard, it's difficult. It's especially good content,

Unknown: 00:24:03

and and it should be rewarded. So you know, having that

Unknown: 00:24:07

experience just made me even more passionate for advocating

Unknown: 00:24:10

for creative people and talent. And, you know, I love what I do.

Unknown: 00:24:14

I'm lucky that I'm somebody that comes to work, and I love what I

Unknown: 00:24:17

do every day. But that that to me was really besides learning

Unknown: 00:24:21

the technical skills of how to create something. Just being

Unknown: 00:24:25

able to experience something in a different way, in the

Unknown: 00:24:31

entertainment business in a different way, was just

Unknown: 00:24:33

unbelievably rewarding and helpful to me in my legal

Unknown: 00:24:37

career.

Lindsay Poss: 00:24:39

I think the point that you make about people who

Lindsay Poss: 00:24:42

are actually the digital creators to being subjected to

Lindsay Poss: 00:24:46

the most criticism and being in the most vulnerable position is

Lindsay Poss: 00:24:50

one that I had not thought about before either. That's a really

Lindsay Poss: 00:24:54

astute point to me, because we often see an end product and we

Lindsay Poss: 00:24:58

don't see the work that goes in to it, and we don't think about

Lindsay Poss: 00:25:01

what kind of criticisms we're giving, when we don't

Lindsay Poss: 00:25:04

necessarily appreciate that work in the way that the creator

Lindsay Poss: 00:25:08

intended. So I can, I can really appreciate that. And I will look

Lindsay Poss: 00:25:13

at digital media a little bit differently as a result. So

Lindsay Poss: 00:25:15

thank you for that. And for sharing that experience, I do

Lindsay Poss: 00:25:20

want to pivot a little bit in our, in our last phone call, you

Lindsay Poss: 00:25:24

talked about how you wanted to represent more women in the

Lindsay Poss: 00:25:27

industry, and how you set yourself, you have also already

Lindsay Poss: 00:25:32

set yourself apart and that you're a creator, or that you've

Lindsay Poss: 00:25:34

experienced both sides, that the underground experience of

Lindsay Poss: 00:25:38

actually being a creator, and a lot of the clients who represent

Lindsay Poss: 00:25:42

our Creator, so you can see it from both angles. What are the

Lindsay Poss: 00:25:46

differences you saw, both as a creator and now as

Lindsay Poss: 00:25:48

representation for women in the industry?

Unknown: 00:25:52

Yeah, I mean, you know, one of the reasons I was very

Unknown: 00:25:56

interested in getting into gaming was because I was reading

Unknown: 00:25:58

about all these female gamers that were being abused online,

Unknown: 00:26:02

were not getting the recognition that they deserved. And that,

Unknown: 00:26:06

you know, really made me angry. And I think as women, we have

Unknown: 00:26:10

sadly experienced this a lot in no matter what industry you're

Unknown: 00:26:14

in is, you know, always having to sort of work harder than your

Unknown: 00:26:18

male counterparts or being under, you know, an increased

Unknown: 00:26:22

amount of scrutiny and, you know, being expected to sort of,

Unknown: 00:26:26

not self promote, and not shout from the rooftops, because

Unknown: 00:26:30

that's that, you know, something that women should do. And so

Unknown: 00:26:34

that, you know, I think it's improved slightly, I think, the

Unknown: 00:26:39

same problems that female creators face. If women just

Unknown: 00:26:44

face in general around whether you recreate or you're somebody

Unknown: 00:26:47

in business, or you're an attorney, I think it's, you

Unknown: 00:26:51

know, there's the same problems that I just talked about. So I'm

Unknown: 00:26:54

not seeing a big difference there. To be honest, I think we,

Unknown: 00:26:58

we, as women, we continue to try to elevate each other's voices,

Unknown: 00:27:02

you know, I can elevate female creative voices, and female, you

Unknown: 00:27:07

know, whenever talent signs on to me, like I always sided with

Unknown: 00:27:11

me, I always say to them, your success is our success, right?

Unknown: 00:27:13

Everybody know, meeting each other. And that's, you know,

Unknown: 00:27:16

that's definitely the case. And I'm really proud of my firm's

Unknown: 00:27:19

roster, we're really diverse, we represent a an incredible number

Unknown: 00:27:23

of women who are doing amazing things just really proud of, and

Unknown: 00:27:27

I will say this, you know, and I'll date myself a little bit

Unknown: 00:27:30

here, but this whole Gen Z, sort of Gen Z situation, or, you

Unknown: 00:27:35

know, the Gen Z generation, so to speak, I will say that I

Unknown: 00:27:39

think a lot of these young women are not only amazing, but

Unknown: 00:27:42

actually, you know, mean, what they say when they say they want

Unknown: 00:27:47

to work with other women, they actually do. And I think that's

Unknown: 00:27:51

incredibly helpful. And I think that's something that has

Unknown: 00:27:54

changed. I don't think, no, not this my own generation. But I

Unknown: 00:28:00

don't think there was that commitment there. And I see it

Unknown: 00:28:05

with younger people. And I think it's amazing, I see a lot of

Unknown: 00:28:08

young women that are like, I want to work with other women.

Unknown: 00:28:10

And they do. And I think that's bringing, that's going to be

Unknown: 00:28:13

helpful to address some issues that sadly, are still there

Unknown: 00:28:17

today, whether you're a creator, businessperson or attorney,

Unknown: 00:28:20

wherever you are as a woman.

Lindsay Poss: 00:28:22

I wonder if that's because there has been an AI,

Lindsay Poss: 00:28:28

this is a phrase that I've used quite a bit on this podcast, but

Lindsay Poss: 00:28:31

it certainly feels like there has been a shift from

Lindsay Poss: 00:28:34

competition to collaboration. It's to me, it feels like when I

Lindsay Poss: 00:28:39

was growing up, a lot of the women, industry leaders and

Lindsay Poss: 00:28:43

business people I had to look up to almost had to put other women

Lindsay Poss: 00:28:48

down to secure their own spot in an industry. You know, I'm not

Lindsay Poss: 00:28:52

like other women, I'm one of the guys kind of kind of thing to

Lindsay Poss: 00:28:56

fit in. Right. And it feels as if that's going by the wayside.

Lindsay Poss: 00:29:01

And it feels as if women are getting into positions of power

Lindsay Poss: 00:29:04

and are saying, hey, you know, I want to hire more women and give

Lindsay Poss: 00:29:07

them the opportunity that I didn't have, rather than

Lindsay Poss: 00:29:12

ferociously hanging on to the opportunity for themselves. I

Lindsay Poss: 00:29:16

don't know if that's the phenomenon you're describing.

Lindsay Poss: 00:29:18

That's definitely my take on it. But it certainly feels we've

Lindsay Poss: 00:29:22

become much more collaborative, which is something I really

Lindsay Poss: 00:29:25

appreciate.

Unknown: 00:29:26

I mean, I 100% agree with that. And I think that a

Unknown: 00:29:29

large part of it is the internet, right? Because we're

Unknown: 00:29:31

able cooperate with each other very easily. You're able to

Unknown: 00:29:33

connect with people easily there aren't all these gatekeepers to

Unknown: 00:29:36

go through where it's like, Oh, I wish I could contact somebody

Unknown: 00:29:40

at this company. This woman that seems really interesting, and

Unknown: 00:29:42

I'm interested in what she's doing. You can DM people now you

Unknown: 00:29:45

can reach that, you know, it's the gatekeepers are gone. And I

Unknown: 00:29:50

think the spirit of collaboration is definitely it's

Unknown: 00:29:54

a great way to put it. I love that you put it that way. I

Unknown: 00:29:56

think it's definitely moved from competition to collaboration.

Unknown: 00:30:00

But there's also more room for women now, right? There's more

Unknown: 00:30:03

room for many different industries. And, you know,

Unknown: 00:30:06

hopefully we continue to make these strides in this progress

Unknown: 00:30:10

where it's like it is, you know, half the female, you know, half

Unknown: 00:30:13

the directors nominated for an Oscar are women like, I hope we

Unknown: 00:30:16

can get in or we're not there. Right. But I hope we can get

Unknown: 00:30:20

there. So it's, and I do think it's moving in the right

Unknown: 00:30:22

direction. But I do have a lot of faith in, you know, all of

Unknown: 00:30:25

these young women who are doing amazing things coming out of

Unknown: 00:30:28

college, working with other women uplifting their voices.

Unknown: 00:30:31

And I'm seeing it for sure. And it's definitely a shift.

Lindsay Poss: 00:30:36

That's so one of the things that we've been

Lindsay Poss: 00:30:38

talking about on this podcast, in addition to that has been the

Lindsay Poss: 00:30:42

building of the metaverse and how one of my big things is, I

Lindsay Poss: 00:30:45

do not want the crypto bros to be the ones that are fully in

Lindsay Poss: 00:30:48

charge of it. But I would love to get some of your thoughts on

Lindsay Poss: 00:30:52

the metaverse how your clients are exploring this idea. As

Lindsay Poss: 00:30:56

we've talked about, I do think personally as well, that Gen Z

Lindsay Poss: 00:31:00

is a totally different take on it. You know Millennials were

Lindsay Poss: 00:31:03

the were considered the digital natives. But even for us, we

Lindsay Poss: 00:31:06

haven't fully integrated our lives online in the way some of

Lindsay Poss: 00:31:10

Gen Z has, particularly now that they are even having to do so

Lindsay Poss: 00:31:12

much school online. But what what kind of things are your

Lindsay Poss: 00:31:17

clients exploring within the metaverse arena? And what has

Lindsay Poss: 00:31:20

that been like for you representing digital artists and

Lindsay Poss: 00:31:22

digital content creators?

Unknown: 00:31:24

Yeah, so I think everybody sort of, it's

Unknown: 00:31:27

interesting, the beginning of 2022, everyone started to talk

Unknown: 00:31:31

about the metaverse, right. So this is like I feel like in the

Unknown: 00:31:34

last few weeks, yep. Right now is that people are sitting back

Unknown: 00:31:40

and observing and waiting. You know, they know that somehow

Unknown: 00:31:44

they're going to have some presence in the metaverse. You

Unknown: 00:31:48

know, these social media platforms. Like you talked

Unknown: 00:31:51

earlier, you and I for the show about, you know, Facebook,

Unknown: 00:31:54

changing the meta. So everyone's kind of I think, right now

Unknown: 00:31:58

sitting back and sort of waiting to see what happens. Because to

Unknown: 00:32:03

be honest, like, I feel like the metaverse is already here. And

Unknown: 00:32:06

in the form of things like fortnight, right like that in

Unknown: 00:32:10

Yeah. I'm not sure why everybody's like, Oh, this is

Unknown: 00:32:13

this crazy, new thing, but I think it's in within the gaming

Unknown: 00:32:16

industry. And this is where the gaming industry is particularly

Unknown: 00:32:19

interesting to me. They're already there. And they're

Unknown: 00:32:23

already doing it. And you know, coordinated ticular is having

Unknown: 00:32:27

concerts within the game, you know, live monsters. And that,

Unknown: 00:32:32

to me is really fascinating. And being somebody who loves

Unknown: 00:32:35

entertainment and loves the business. I just I saw gaming

Unknown: 00:32:40

being having this incredible foresight and already doing

Unknown: 00:32:44

things that nobody else was doing in that world. That that

Unknown: 00:32:48

was another reason I wanted to be involved in it. But I do

Unknown: 00:32:51

think right now my clients are sort of waiting to see like,

Unknown: 00:32:55

what is this about? And so that they're ready when it's time to

Unknown: 00:32:59

be part of that Metaverse of whatever form that's going to

Unknown: 00:33:02

take. I just don't think people know right now what the form is,

Unknown: 00:33:06

but I can tell you viewing contracts now. You know if if

Unknown: 00:33:10

we're talking about different platforms or exclusivity on

Unknown: 00:33:13

different social media platforms, we are carving out

Unknown: 00:33:16

the metaverse meaning we're saying this does not include the

Unknown: 00:33:19

metaverse not even knowing what that is yet. We might have

Unknown: 00:33:23

reserving the right to figure it out. When we get there instead

Unknown: 00:33:26

of sort of handing rights over to something we don't even know

Unknown: 00:33:29

what it is.

Lindsay Poss: 00:33:30

Right. That's such an interesting way of including

Lindsay Poss: 00:33:33

it without needing to define it because you're you're absolutely

Lindsay Poss: 00:33:37

right in that it's so undefined. And I would like to point out,

Lindsay Poss: 00:33:40

as I have before that this podcast was named before the

Lindsay Poss: 00:33:43

announcement of Facebook changing its name. So either

Lindsay Poss: 00:33:47

they copied us, or it was some really, really wild timing for

Lindsay Poss: 00:33:53

us.

Unknown: 00:33:54

company out there called meta that I think they're

Unknown: 00:33:57

fighting trademarks or something. But yeah, I mean,

Unknown: 00:34:02

that's a tough one to trade by. I can tell you right now.

Lindsay Poss: 00:34:05

I know. We'll see what happens with that. As as

Lindsay Poss: 00:34:09

someone who's also interested in digital art one of the few kind

Lindsay Poss: 00:34:13

of Metaverse II things that has that really exploded in 2021. I

Lindsay Poss: 00:34:18

guess when we were all bored at home was NF Ts. Do you represent

Lindsay Poss: 00:34:23

any clients getting into this space? How do you think about

Lindsay Poss: 00:34:27

this as someone who wants to see art rewarded? What are your

Lindsay Poss: 00:34:31

what's your take on the NFT marketplace and landscape?

Unknown: 00:34:34

Yeah, I love it. Yeah, great. Yeah, I think it's great.

Unknown: 00:34:39

I think that we do have clients that are getting into it, who

Unknown: 00:34:42

want them in tennis, or you know, we're helping we're

Unknown: 00:34:45

educating them on that process and platforms like open see and

Unknown: 00:34:49

other platforms you can use and helping them do deals and hiring

Unknown: 00:34:54

graphic designers etc. To help them you know, create the

Unknown: 00:34:58

artwork and that they want to miss And so yeah, I mean, look

Unknown: 00:35:02

at NFT is really just a certificate. It's a digital

Unknown: 00:35:06

certificate of ownership, you know, and it's created on the

Unknown: 00:35:09

blockchain and that tech, that piece is not going away. Right.

Unknown: 00:35:15

So I think when people talk about like, oh, like you bought

Unknown: 00:35:18

a JPEG for $3,000, like, Are you an idiot? Like, I don't, that's

Unknown: 00:35:24

not what it's about to be, right. Like whether that person

Unknown: 00:35:27

donated or not, is neither here nor there is lots of NF T, the

Unknown: 00:35:32

token is not going anywhere. And so right now we're seeing it

Unknown: 00:35:36

used in connection with digital art. And the mainstream media is

Unknown: 00:35:40

picking up the people story with everybody knows $69 million, you

Unknown: 00:35:44

know, or the 40 Yacht Club, people know all about those

Unknown: 00:35:49

celebrities buying those NF T's. But it's, it's so much more than

Unknown: 00:35:55

that. Like, I think you have to sort of look beyond all of what

Unknown: 00:35:59

the mainstream media hypes up and look at it simply as a

Unknown: 00:36:03

token, I mean, it's a tokenized asset. And so if you just boil

Unknown: 00:36:09

it down to that, and attack, I think it's really interesting. I

Unknown: 00:36:12

think it's a way for artists to, you know, control their, their

Unknown: 00:36:18

artwork, and who gets to buy it, and the different uses that

Unknown: 00:36:21

they're granting to that artwork, and also build

Unknown: 00:36:24

communities around their artwork, and be compensated for

Unknown: 00:36:28

that. That's really interesting and exciting to me, like I'm

Unknown: 00:36:31

not, you know, caught up in this NFT bubble and this and that,

Unknown: 00:36:35

like, I have no idea whether somebody, you know, the selling

Unknown: 00:36:39

things for hundreds of millions of dollars in the last and

Unknown: 00:36:41

that's not really my concern. I think, like I said, it's the

Unknown: 00:36:44

tech that's more interesting to me and this idea of these

Unknown: 00:36:47

tokenized assets.

Lindsay Poss: 00:36:50

That's a very well rounded take that I don't think

Lindsay Poss: 00:36:52

I've heard before. It seems like we either have people who are

Lindsay Poss: 00:36:58

complete diehards, or people who are, this is BS. And and you're

Lindsay Poss: 00:37:05

right, in that there hasn't been a lot of people who are looking

Lindsay Poss: 00:37:08

at the actual process behind it. And what it what that could

Lindsay Poss: 00:37:12

mean, everyone is totally caught up in the surface level stuff. I

Lindsay Poss: 00:37:16

love that you pointed out community building as well,

Lindsay Poss: 00:37:20

because that is a very powerful tool. And it's one that

Lindsay Poss: 00:37:23

definitely has, has taken off in conjunction with some of these

Lindsay Poss: 00:37:27

sales, but that nobody's talked about how many communities have

Lindsay Poss: 00:37:31

sprung

Unknown: 00:37:31

up like this successful NFT campaigns that you're not

Unknown: 00:37:35

seeing on the news are the ones that have built up these

Unknown: 00:37:39

communities, right. And within those communities, people want

Unknown: 00:37:42

to trade NSCs, they want to collect a certain artist or an

Unknown: 00:37:46

artist that like on a much smaller sort of micro scale.

Unknown: 00:37:50

That's what I'm interested in, because I think that's going to

Unknown: 00:37:53

get bigger, and that's going to be more artists are going to get

Unknown: 00:37:56

into that. I will say this, though, there's definitely

Unknown: 00:37:59

scammers out there. So the people that are like, this is

Unknown: 00:38:02

BS, I understand the skepticism, because there are scammers out

Unknown: 00:38:06

there. And a lot of people say and I do think there's some

Unknown: 00:38:08

truth to this, you do have a few big players involved, who, for

Unknown: 00:38:13

them, it's about raising the value of their crypto that they

Unknown: 00:38:16

earned that they own right, and how to put value onto that

Unknown: 00:38:20

crypto by buying these assets, and then selling them for higher

Unknown: 00:38:24

prices and keeping that you know, keeping the price of

Unknown: 00:38:28

crypto high, whatever that whatever version, the Kryptos

Unknown: 00:38:31

in, I do think that that's happening. But I do think

Unknown: 00:38:34

there's this whole other world underneath that, that where it's

Unknown: 00:38:38

actually going to be really useful to like the little people

Unknown: 00:38:40

like, you know, you and I like the average person, right, who

Unknown: 00:38:44

just is interested in digital art and tokenized assets. So,

Unknown: 00:38:49

you know, there's, there's cameras everywhere, but no, I,

Unknown: 00:38:54

what can you do?

Lindsay Poss: 00:38:56

But I think well, I like that. Yeah, I like that

Lindsay Poss: 00:38:58

nuanced take, though. And you're right. There's problems with in

Lindsay Poss: 00:39:01

any industry. It's not. It's not new to have issues in an

Lindsay Poss: 00:39:06

industry and especially a tech industry, if we're being real.

Lindsay Poss: 00:39:10

Yeah, that's completely understandable

Unknown: 00:39:12

government. I do think because of the money laundering

Unknown: 00:39:14

issues and stuff like that. I do think the government will get

Unknown: 00:39:18

involved in and that'll be another, you know, interesting

Unknown: 00:39:21

development, and we'll have to navigate that. And as attorneys

Unknown: 00:39:24

will have to know about it and help our clients navigate it, it

Unknown: 00:39:26

will happen. It hasn't happened yet. But you know, it's it's an

Unknown: 00:39:32

amazing world. It's evolving every day, but I would not write

Unknown: 00:39:35

off and MCs at all. That's a good

Lindsay Poss: 00:39:38

Yeah, I think that's a really good way of

Lindsay Poss: 00:39:41

putting it. I want to before we move on to our last segment, I

Lindsay Poss: 00:39:45

want to quickly summarize some of the things that we've talked

Lindsay Poss: 00:39:47

about. It's I can't believe we've already been talking for

Lindsay Poss: 00:39:49

almost 40 minutes now. It's gone by so quickly. We started with

Lindsay Poss: 00:39:54

digital creators and how they have a wide array of skills,

Lindsay Poss: 00:39:57

gaming influencers. It's looking a lot Like where social media

Lindsay Poss: 00:40:01

was in 2013, as in its social media and gaming platforms can

Lindsay Poss: 00:40:06

be a place to start and build a business. Social Media and

Lindsay Poss: 00:40:10

Gaming are really the same industry. And there's way too

Lindsay Poss: 00:40:14

much overlap to draw a distinction. People on all

Lindsay Poss: 00:40:18

platforms should be aware of how they're using third party IP.

Lindsay Poss: 00:40:23

One of the best things we talked about was how collaboration has

Lindsay Poss: 00:40:26

become much more at the forefront of getting different

Lindsay Poss: 00:40:29

people into the industry, particularly women. I'm hoping

Lindsay Poss: 00:40:32

that maybe that collaboration, not competition, also applies to

Lindsay Poss: 00:40:36

some different minority and other stakeholders. So we'll see

Lindsay Poss: 00:40:41

where that goes. But at least being able to widely reach

Lindsay Poss: 00:40:44

people and not having gatekeepers. Being able to DM

Lindsay Poss: 00:40:47

those people on LinkedIn and ask questions, has helped women

Lindsay Poss: 00:40:50

tremendously. I loved your take on the metaverse that it's

Lindsay Poss: 00:40:53

already here. That gaming has had incredible foresight on

Lindsay Poss: 00:40:56

building the metaverse and what people they have a lot of games

Lindsay Poss: 00:41:01

have done with people haven't been doing. I also like that you

Lindsay Poss: 00:41:05

said that you feel that there's a lot of observation going on.

Lindsay Poss: 00:41:07

And people are thinking about next steps and kind of seeing

Lindsay Poss: 00:41:09

what's going on and learning the industry. We rounded out a

Lindsay Poss: 00:41:12

discussion with NF T's which had to be the the buzzword of 2021.

Lindsay Poss: 00:41:18

But you had a very balanced and nuanced take, which is that the

Lindsay Poss: 00:41:23

press kind of overhyped, the artistic side and huge sales,

Lindsay Poss: 00:41:26

but that there's a lot of opportunity for tokenized act

Lindsay Poss: 00:41:30

assets and for everyone to use them. And I think that that's a

Lindsay Poss: 00:41:34

great point. So the very last segment I like to do I like to

Lindsay Poss: 00:41:38

do with every guest on the show, it's kind of a moment for you to

Lindsay Poss: 00:41:40

reflect on your career. And think about how your career has

Lindsay Poss: 00:41:46

changed over the years. So I would love to ask you what is

Lindsay Poss: 00:41:50

one thing you would like to tell your younger self about getting

Lindsay Poss: 00:41:52

into the gaming industry? Or in your case, kind of the gaming

Lindsay Poss: 00:41:56

and influencing industry and being successful?

Unknown: 00:42:00

Yeah, it's, you know, I think my younger self was pretty

Unknown: 00:42:05

confident, maybe border like cocky a little bit of what I

Unknown: 00:42:11

could accomplish in a short amount of time, I think, you

Unknown: 00:42:14

know, the biggest thing is that it takes time, and I recognize

Unknown: 00:42:17

that also with the gaming industry. You know, my firm, we

Unknown: 00:42:20

do represent some amazing gamers, but you know, we're

Unknown: 00:42:23

just, it's a new space for us. And it will take time. And you

Unknown: 00:42:28

know, it's important to develop relationships, and, you know,

Unknown: 00:42:31

talk to everybody and network. And, you know, I think it's

Unknown: 00:42:35

really I would tell my younger self, you know, don't think that

Unknown: 00:42:38

you're going to be the preeminent gaming attorney. You

Unknown: 00:42:42

know, in June of 2022, I would love if that would happen. But

Unknown: 00:42:45

these things take time. And it takes time to build a roster.

Unknown: 00:42:48

And so, you know, I'm confident it can happen and we will

Unknown: 00:42:53

continue to build our gaming practice, but you know, just

Unknown: 00:42:57

sound like a broken record, all of these things take time and

Unknown: 00:42:59

just slow down and really think about what we're doing and in

Unknown: 00:43:03

handle, you know, all of our matters of care which we do so.

Unknown: 00:43:08

Yeah, that's I think the biggest thing I would tell my younger

Unknown: 00:43:10

self.

Lindsay Poss: 00:43:12

I like that. Yeah. To to be patient. Easier said

Lindsay Poss: 00:43:17

than done. Thank you so much for coming on lead. I really

Lindsay Poss: 00:43:22

appreciate it. If for our listeners out there who haven't

Lindsay Poss: 00:43:24

checked out her interview on business of esports. I highly

Lindsay Poss: 00:43:27

recommend that as well. So great episode, where can people find

Lindsay Poss: 00:43:30

you? If you want to be found? Well,

Unknown: 00:43:33

sadly, I'm going to be the boring lawyer and just tell

Unknown: 00:43:35

you on LinkedIn, because that is really the only platform that

Unknown: 00:43:41

I've activated i i tell my clients you know, they're like,

Unknown: 00:43:45

Well, you don't really you know, you don't post on Instagram

Unknown: 00:43:47

stuff like you know, you probably want your attorneys to

Unknown: 00:43:50

maintain an error a little bit.

Lindsay Poss: 00:43:55

Totally agree with that.

Unknown: 00:43:58

To see all my personal life and every second of the

Unknown: 00:44:00

day, what kind of sandwich I ate earlier, but I Yeah, it's

Unknown: 00:44:05

LinkedIn is definitely the best place.

Lindsay Poss: 00:44:08

Got it? Well send send your law questions to Anita

Lindsay Poss: 00:44:11

on LinkedIn, if you still have them. For all of our listeners

Lindsay Poss: 00:44:15

out there, make sure you leave those five star ratings and

Lindsay Poss: 00:44:17

reviews. Be sure to also check out other holodeck media

Lindsay Poss: 00:44:20

podcasts, including meta business for all the metaverse,

Lindsay Poss: 00:44:23

finance stories you could ever want, and the aforementioned

Lindsay Poss: 00:44:27

business of esports for interviews with industry

Lindsay Poss: 00:44:29

leaders, you can catch me Wednesday nights on the business

Lindsay Poss: 00:44:32

of esports live after show so you can come in and ask me

Lindsay Poss: 00:44:35

questions. And you can catch this podcast on your feed every

Lindsay Poss: 00:44:38

Tuesday. We'll see you next week.

Unknown: 00:44:40

Thank you.

Unknown: 00:44:41

Thanks for joining us here on meta woman. Make sure to

Unknown: 00:44:44

subscribe to this podcast everywhere you get your

Unknown: 00:44:46

podcasts, leave a five star review and tell your friends,

Unknown: 00:44:49

family and colleagues all about us. Also, make sure to follow

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Unknown: 00:44:56

content anywhere. Tune in every week for another episode of