Episode 40

full
Published on:

13th Sep 2022

40. Technical Poetry

Nadja Bester, Co-founder of Engage of Earn investment platform AdLunam, Inc., joins the show today! Nadja has a career in tech, journalism, and travel all rolled into one. We talk about building a platform, why crypto and Web3 projects are important, and what tools founders can use to set themselves up for success.

Episode Resources:

https://adlunam.cc/

https://hackernoon.com/engaging-to-earn-with-adlunam-co-founder-nadja-bester

https://www.benzinga.com/fintech/22/05/27186631/women-leading-in-the-journey-toward-web3

https://metaverseinsider.tech/2022/04/28/an-interview-with-nadja-bester-the-ceo-of-adlunam-a-transformational-ido-launchpad/

Transcript
Unknown:

Welcome to the meadow woman podcast. We address the

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issues, opportunities and challenges facing women in the

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development of the metaverse the biggest revolution since the

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internet itself. Every week we bring you conversations with top

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female talent and business executives operating in the

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gaming and crypto industries. Here's your host Lindsey the

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boss POS, the meta woman podcast starts

Lindsay Poss:

now. Hello, and welcome to the meta woman

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podcast part of the holodeck media Podcast Network. I'm your

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host, Lindsay the boss POS. And from struggle to success. We're

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covering it all. To our returning listeners. Thank you

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so much for supporting the show. And for all the new listeners

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out there. I hope you enjoy it. I hope you'll join us again.

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Today's guest is someone I'm really excited to introduce and

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we spent a long time going over how exactly to pronounce her

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name and her native language and I know that I'm still going to

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butcher it but that's okay. We'll do our best. Nazia Bester

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is the co founder of ad Luna and has an illustrious background as

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a marketing executive, cmo agency, Director, journalist and

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traveler. She's joining us today from Istanbul Turkey, which is a

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place I've always wanted to visit my secret favorite, or my

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secret, kind of number one travel dream is to go to the

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balloon festival in Cappadocia, Turkey. So Nadia, if you've been

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please tell me and welcome to the show, please introduce

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yourself, give the audience a bit of your backstory. And tell

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me if you've ever been to the hot air balloon festival and

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capital Jaya.

Unknown:

Hey, Lindsey, very good to be on. Sorry, I

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unfortunately, I haven't been I got to Turkey, just the summer

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was starting. And so I tried to stay indoors as much as

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possible. So I've only really explored the Istanbul in the

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area surrounding it, but absolutely has to be on your

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travelers. It's one of those cities that just blew me away. I

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didn't know what to expect, but it superseded my expectations in

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so many different ways. And as for the way that you pronounce

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my name, I think it's very, very close to how I would say it. So

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fantastic job. And then lastly, I'm actually no longer in

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Istanbul, I am in Kosovo, in the Balkans in Europe. So very

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interesting place for very different reasons. But a great

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experience all

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the same. You're living out my my travel bucket

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list.

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I mean, it's a difficult job, but someone has

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to do it. So you will asking a little bit about me and my

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background. Origin Stories are one of my favorite things as

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well. Because I think there's so many different points of entry

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into anything, you know, probably as many as they will

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fingerprints in the world. So I would say if I have to really

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kind of look over the journey that I've taken to get to where

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I am today, a lot of it was quite serendipitous. So I got

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started originally studied psychology started in

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therapeutic field and went into marketing very much by chance,

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my son, he's an unschoolers, or you know, he doesn't go through

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traditional go through traditional schooling. And at

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those in those days, there was this community spread out across

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the world, people who practice alternative education, but we're

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not connected, because the internet itself was you know,

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really in its infancy in the sense that people didn't use the

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internet the way they do today. And so I started learning how to

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create websites. So I could create this community to connect

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all of these different people in different geographic locations.

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And, as a result, learned a lot about marketing. And before I

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knew it, I was working in the industry and had started my own

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agency. From that point on, you know, this sense of serendipity

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really just continued. At some point, I was leading digital

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marketing, and this was back in 2015. So digital was this

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freshly minted adjective. I mean, today, we don't use the

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word digital. It's all just marketing. So I was working for

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the head office of a multibillion dollar pharma

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company, which probably the least fun industry in the world

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to full digital marketing. And, you know, after a few years of

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constant international travel, high stress, I was supporting

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over 60 different country offices. So work was 24 7365. I

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woke up one day and I decided, Okay, that's it. I've had

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enough. So I plan to hand in my resignation a few months down

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the line. But on an almost daily basis, I woke up and I would

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say, You know what, I'm going to decrease this period by one

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month. And so they weren't that many months before. Long before

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I knew it. I'd done it. My resignation was in and my son

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and I he was 10. At the time we were on a plane to a tropical

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island, and I had no plans Other than the intention that I would

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stop working so damn much and just relax. Now, what I didn't

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anticipate is your as a workaholic, I had no idea how to

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relax. So I couldn't actually achieve this objective. I very

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quickly got into environmental marketing consultancy. And I

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worked on a range of different projects, including, funnily

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enough the island that we had stayed on. But the seed I think

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had been planted, that I really wanted my life to take a

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different turn. Yeah, fast forward a few months, I was

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sitting in a villa, right next to a rice paddy, central Vietnam

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that we were renting at the time. And I was still in this

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process of, you know, learning to take in the stillness of the

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moment. But old habits die hard. And I was still at the same time

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longing for what's next. And you know, what can I kind of what

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can I kind of dig my teeth into sink my teeth into a funny story

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in the sense that it really wasn't something I was planning.

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But a friend tagged me in a post on Facebook in a group. And this

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post was looking for journalists. So I had loved

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being a journalist for my high school paper. And when I was a

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teenager, I used to win, you know, many writing awards and

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things. But I never seriously considered making a career. So

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when I saw this person, you know, my name was there. And I

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was like, Okay, this is a sign, I'm going to go for it. I'm

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going to, you know, live this other life that I that I was

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never going to choose for myself. Sorry, it wasn't at all,

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I think a very serious thing. For me, it was like, Oh, this is

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the next thing that's going to come up. And it's also I guess,

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the way that I live my life in general. So this this job

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opening was with a newly launched crypto publication. So

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I very quickly became hit news editor, post that I went on to

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write for other publications like investing.com bitcoin.com,

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B and crypto, etc. And yeah, history tends to repeat itself.

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Because before long, I found myself again, with a

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communications agency that I had started, I worked as a CMR. And

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you know, leading up from there, now, I'm the co founder of at

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Luna. So yeah, roundabout way to get into the industry. But if I

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look back, I really see kind of the trajectory and how it led me

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there. That is

Lindsay Poss:

quite the origin story. And I love that it's all

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tied up in travel and journalism and all kinds of other things.

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Can you tell me how, as someone with less technical background,

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how you've been able to fit in into kind of the crypto tech web

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marketing world, and how you've been able to transition from

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someone who may have done more, you know, writing and traveling

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and kind of creative pursuits into a role that requires kind

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of quite a bit of maybe technical knowledge, but not

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technical application, or just what it's like, I myself and

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also a non technical person, I do not have a software

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engineering background by any means. So I'm always curious as

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to how other people kind of handle that and the roles that

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they wind up in,

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I first encountered Bitcoin back in 2012, which is a

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lifetime go. And I was at the time setting up a digital

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marketing agency. So this was really early in this digital

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slash Internet revolution, you know, in terms of mass adoption,

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you know, so compared to the average person, at that time, I

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felt that I was, let's say, not technically able, in terms of

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skills, but I had a more technical understanding,

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perhaps, of, you know, something as simple as HTML. When I

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encountered Bitcoin, it seemed like absolute rocket science,

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not only the technology, and of course, the technology really

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appeared to be central to understanding anything about it.

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But in general, it was just so above my mental paygrade, that I

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told myself really, that I would revisit this whole concept, you

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know, if it became bigger, and had become idiot proof, fast

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forward to 2017, it reappeared on my radar. And this is with,

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you know, this opportunity that I got as a journalist that

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technology had, like, already expanded into this newly born

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business sector. So there was this whole array of professional

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services that go with it for me, because my entry point came

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through journalism. I had the opportunity on a daily basis to

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school myself about all these various aspects. So I quickly

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became, let's say, a Joel of all awareness, not necessarily of

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trades, but I had this bird's eye perspective of the industry

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as a whole. So it was easier for me, I think, to grasp that I

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didn't have to know everything. And in fact, no one And does,

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because I think there's this belief in not only crypto but in

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general, when it's a technical industry that you have to

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understand things inside and out. And while of course, that's

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a huge strength, it's really not necessarily and not not

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necessary, not required. So in the web three space or in

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crypto, I mean, I don't have to train as a solidity developer in

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order to legitimately create a valuable place for myself. So I

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would say, you know, for me, personally, if I look over my

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own journey, I had already had a career as an agency director,

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you know, marketing, executive consultant, and all of those

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things found their place in krypter. So I was back to

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business as usual before long, but just you know, in a

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different industry. The difference was that in this new

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industry, they were possibilities to rise up to

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almost I don't want to say break through the, the glass ceiling,

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because for sure, there is a glass ceiling everywhere. But

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the glass ceiling in this industry probably is higher than

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it is in others. And so I've never really felt personally

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speaking, that my lack of technical expertise has held me

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back because there are so many other aspects to being in this

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industry that doesn't require technical knowledge. I mean, if

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I look, for example, to add Luna, we are three co founders,

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Jason Fernandez and I, we used to work on a different project

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together a couple years ago, and we stayed friends. And then

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Lawrence Hudson, who is also our CTO, he joined us shortly as

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well. And between the three of us, I think we bring to the

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table, so many different, like a huge, wide variety of

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experiences and skill sets, many of which probably most of which

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we acquired before coming into this industry, the reality is

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that I am by far the least technical between the three of

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us, while at the same time, the value that I add to the company

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is instrumental to its existence. So I think you know,

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that's really important is owning who you are. And not

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everyone is technical, and we don't all have to be technical.

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So own who you are. And at the same time, you know, stay fluid

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and flexible, because you still want to grow into whatever it is

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that you wish to be. But not feeling like what you are now is

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inadequate, because you'll only be good enough, if you have,

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let's say technical skills,

Lindsay Poss:

that makes total sense to me. And again, as

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someone who is non technical, I very much appreciate that

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answer. This is a question. I've kind of asked folks in the

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gaming industry. But can Are there any gaps that you

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currently see in the web three industry, we'll get more into

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what aluminum is and what it does. But you've been working in

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web three and working in crypto, and there is a dearth of, of

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creative and bright software engineers and electrical

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engineers, computer engineers who are working on these massive

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projects, right. But is there a gap in in these non technical

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positions that you're seeing? Like, are you seeing companies

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that have a brilliant product with very poor marketing or a

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brilliant product that they can't bring to launch? Because

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there's bad project management or not even bad, but you get

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what I'm saying? Basically, are there any kind of overall gaps

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that maybe people who are non technical looking to get into

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crypto should think about learning the skills for or

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bolstering their skills for to actually enter the industry?

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Yeah, that's a really fantastic question. And I think

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it's such an important question, because you look to this

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industry as it has everything it needs. Its you know, like the

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cool kid in class who you might sit there at the boring desk,

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but listening to the boring teacher and the boring

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classroom. But you know, that this kid, as soon as they leave

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school, their life is just going to be Technicolor. Where's

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yours? I don't know, whatever the opposite is. So on the

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surface, it seems like crypto has everything that it needs.

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And it's, you know, like speeding through space at rocket

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speed. But in reality, what is needed are the non technical

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skills. And this, I would say is probably one of the things that

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hinders progress, in terms of building sustainable companies,

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what hinders it the most, because, you know, in any

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startup in any industry, you have different people playing

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different roles. You have founders who bring the vision

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and the strategy, and you have different departments and

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different employees who execute on that vision and that

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strategy. A startup is like a well oiled machine. And it's,

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it's a bit of a catch 22 Because in business in general, and

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especially in this space that seem to move at triple the speed

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as other industries. It's very difficult when There are dynamic

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processes at play, macro and micro economic and political

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environments that are out of your control. So it's very

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difficult in general, to run a business as a well oiled

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machine, when there's so many things that can go wrong, it

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almost makes me think of, you know, if you look at the rate of

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car accidents that people across the world are involved in, on an

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annual basis, it's amazing that we are still getting into moving

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vehicles. So in the same sense, as a business, we know the

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statistics, we know that the likelihood that any business is

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going to succeed is really very slim. Now in crypto, the

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lifecycle, unfortunately, is very often so short, in the

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sense that the company gets an idea raises funds, maybe build

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the product, maybe not. And before long, you'll never hear

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from them again. Now, in some ways, that is definitely because

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they are, you know, people with ill intent in this industry. And

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they use these opportunities as ways to hit and run, make as

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much cash as I can in the shortest amount of time and then

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disappear, you know, into oblivion. But I think in most

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cases, and I speak really from experience, having consulted

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with, I don't know, hundreds of companies over my career, most

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times, this is really more from a place of not knowing how to

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run a business. And so if you look at the roles that are

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needed, in order to make a business successful, this

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doesn't require technical expertise only right, I can have

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a fantastic product. But if I don't know how to sell, and I

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don't know how to project manage, and I don't know, I

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don't know how to run the office, or my HR isn't good,

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then that great product is going to mean nothing. So ultimately,

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I would say that, you know, not even a concept of what are the

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gaps. But to think about crypto as being any different than any

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other industry where it takes, you know, this whole concept or

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concept of it takes a village to raise a child. But in crypto in

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web three, in general, it takes an entire world to build an

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industry. And I genuinely believe that a there is space

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for everybody, no matter what your skill set is, of course,

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upgrade as much as possible, so that you continue to skill up to

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make yourself valuable, but everyone has value because there

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are there's so much that needs to be done. And second, you

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know, the industry as a whole, which is really, really new.

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It's only being built out by the contributions of people who are

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in this industry. So if you are not a crypto native, and you are

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coming into the space, you don't have technical skills, but for

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example, you have fantastic project management skills, you

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are going to translate a vision into an actual process that is

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going to be executable and is going to be you know, manageable

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and accountable. And so completely, this should not be

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disregarded. No matter what it is that you bring to the table,

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it is going to be not only valuable, but extremely

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appreciated. I mean, I have worked with so many different

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companies in the space where the technical skills are not only

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there, I mean, it's impressive, like you speak to, you know,

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some of these founders, and it's like, Oh, my God, it's, it's

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like technical poetry listening to them, you might not

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understand exactly what they mean. But I mean, they really

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talk the talk. But then the simplest of things in terms of

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management and execution is absent. And this is really where

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those technical folks come in, because the foundation needs to

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be there. So we can but we cannot build without foundation,

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because then it becomes you know, like castles in the sky.

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And unfortunately, this very often is what happens with the

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best of intentions. But there is zero reason to discount oneself

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because you are not technical because in some ways, you know,

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you might not be technical and you might not feel that you have

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the same level of value. But I promise you to a technical

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person who doesn't have the skills that you do what you

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offer is incredibly valuable. So I think that really is the

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number one thing to keep in mind is there is space for everyone.

Lindsay Poss:

I love the term technical poetry. I'm taking

Lindsay Poss:

note of that because I think that's a very succinct way of

Lindsay Poss:

describing a lot of what we hear from from people who are

Lindsay Poss:

actually on that design backing back end engineering portion.

Lindsay Poss:

very succinct way of describing it and Now that we've kind of

Lindsay Poss:

talked about the industry itself, I want to learn more

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about aluminum. And I want to start with ideas and just walk

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through what an ideal is why web three companies should engage in

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the ideal process and what ad loon him kind of offers as a

Lindsay Poss:

launchpad. So we've talked all about what it's like to be in

Lindsay Poss:

crypto and web three. So now tell me what you actually what

Lindsay Poss:

you're actually working on the company, you've founded what it

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does,

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so I'm going to stay true to the spirit of saying

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that you don't have to be technical to get in to the

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industry and say, as a disclaimer, you know, there's a

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lot of terminology and that terminology is intimidating. So

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I'm going to try and answer this question in as much of a plain

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speak way as possible without referring, you know, almost

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leaning in to these different acronyms that, you know, people

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might or might not understand or have heard or might not have.

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But

Lindsay Poss:

I love that just as an aside, it's like the

Lindsay Poss:

explain it like I'm five method.

Unknown:

Exactly. And I mean, that's the way that people that

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people, even myself, I mean, I would love for, okay, maybe I

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don't like mansplaining, so much, so maybe I wouldn't want

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everyone to explain it to me, like on five. But I mean, in

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general, if, you know, it's this whole idea that if you cannot

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explain it to a five year old, then maybe you don't understand

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it yourself. And on the flip side, if you can understand it,

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like a five year old, it would become easier to understand it,

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you know, from you, as you go higher up, let's say knowledge

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hierarchy, in simple terms, when a startup raises funds, now, in

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web three, this would be a startup that's launching a new

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token, they are different funding rocks, starting with

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seed, and private. And potentially this is now in the

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traditional space, potentially culminating in a in a public

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sale. So in traditional finance, you know, public sale, of

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course, means the company is going public, there is an IPO

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and they are going to be listed on a stock exchange. In crypto,

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it's a little bit different. A public sale is almost a given

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and post that public sale, this is now what's referred to as an

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IPO, or an initial Dex offering, but really, you know, don't

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worry too much about what the term means at this point. So

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after this public sale, the token gets listed either on a

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centralized exchange on a decentralized exchange or both.

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And this, of course, allows you to buy the token, sell it or

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utilize it on whatever platform that it is native to

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historically, before it was called an IPO. It was an Ico so

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that was an initial coin Offering projects would raise

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huge amounts, specifically from the public. Yeah, that left a

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lot of room for a lot of scams, because it was very easy to get

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a retail investors to invest into your project, especially if

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you know the amount that they invested didn't have to be that

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much. But at scale, you had like all of these people ultimately

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giving you millions. And it was really easy to just kind of run

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away, which is what a lot of projects did. But so things have

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evolved in the sense since of course, so nowadays, I think the

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public sell is more likely to be the smallest funding round, you

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can think of something as little as $400,000, as opposed to the

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235 million that it was in the in the earlier days. What this

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means the indication for retail investors is now the opportunity

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to invest in an IVR is much smaller than it was before. So

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competition, of course is fierce to the extent and I always find

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this so funny. But at the same time, it's really indicative of

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this industry as a whole. People become influencers really on

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YouTube and Twitter, simply so that they can be guaranteed

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allocation. So and maybe just to add here, so allocation stands

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for the ability and the amount that you are able to invest in a

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fundraising round. In light of all of this a launch pad. This

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is now what aluminum is as well. The word launch pad, I would say

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is crypto speak for an investment platform. So launch

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pads perform many of the same services as a venture capitalist

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firm, including doing due diligence on projects before

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they are listed for public or private sales. So the difference

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between a VC and a launchpad is a launchpad connects projects

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with retail investors and it's the retail investors that invest

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in this project as opposed to launch pads can also invest from

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you know from their position as a launch pad, but their job is

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to connect projects to retail investors. So because of this

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come competitive, highly competitive nature of IPOs.

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Because the amount raised is smaller than the amount of

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people wanting to invest in this fundraising rounds. launchpads

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use a few different mechanisms to distribute allocation. So one

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is guaranteed allocation via staking. Staking refers to

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locking your LaunchPad tokens, so you can't use them during

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that time that they are locked. And some of the most popular

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launch pads guaranteed allocation via staking can be

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priced as high as $25,000. Or even more. So it's really not

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very accessible to the average retail investor who simply

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doesn't have 25k lying around. Now, the alternative is

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mechanisms like lotteries, and auctions. So these as opposed to

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the guaranteed allocation, these rely purely on the randomness

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factor. And they are often touted as a fair distribution

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model. But in truth, I mean, neither project nor retail

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investor benefits truly benefits from this arrangement, if you

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are familiar with pumping dumps. So this is where an investor,

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this is when an investor will really hype up token, only when

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the price goes really high at the public, you know, during the

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public round and beyond, they will sell off the tokens as soon

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as they can to make a profit. So they will dump the tokens back

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on on the open market. And of course, for the project, this is

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going to be devastating. And on the other hand, you have retail

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investors who are truly valuable to a project's long term growth,

Unknown:

but there's no way of identifying who these people are

Unknown:

and ensuring that okay, you can actually reward them

Unknown:

specifically. So this is really the idea the core behind it,

Unknown:

Luna, we wanted to democratize crypto investment. This is the

Unknown:

objective that we set ourselves, you know, and for us, I mean,

Unknown:

all three of us are founders, we've been in the industry for

Unknown:

years, we've seen many things, some of which were great, some

Unknown:

of which were, you know, things we'd rather forget. And so for

Unknown:

us who and we are very committed to being in this industry long

Unknown:

term. So I think this is what happens is you come into the

Unknown:

industry, and you know, you're blinded by all the bright shiny

Unknown:

objects and, or the hype and the opportunities, and there's so

Unknown:

much happening, and it's so amazing. And the ethos, I mean,

Unknown:

you know, this idea that radical freedom and empowerment for all

Unknown:

people, and it's just all wonderful utopia. But then at

Unknown:

some point, you realize, okay, the reality is actually very

Unknown:

different. It is an industry, like any other industry, and

Unknown:

you, you know, you bring people to a new industry, but they come

Unknown:

with their own legacy ideas and legacy behaviors and beliefs. So

Unknown:

really, what we wanted to do is we wanted to democratize krypter

Unknown:

investments specifically. And how we've done that is we

Unknown:

created a model a business model called engaged to earn, I'll go

Unknown:

a little bit in a while into exactly what that is, but

Unknown:

important that it's powered by an allocation mechanism called

Unknown:

Proof of attention. Now, this is very, very significant. And this

Unknown:

is definitely what I'll go into in a little bit more detail. You

Unknown:

know, in general, our model is designed to make crypto

Unknown:

investments accessible to all income levels, because you have

Unknown:

the situation of Wales kind of coming in and gobbling up all of

Unknown:

the available allocation opportunities. And people have

Unknown:

to pay these really high sort of staking fees and or you know,

Unknown:

the staking in order to do ensure allocation. And for the

Unknown:

average person who doesn't have a lot of money to invest in the

Unknown:

first place. It's almost as though the door is being shut in

Unknown:

your face and you are being left in the dark. And in the cold,

Unknown:

like the legacy financial industry also does. So the whole

Unknown:

idea behind crypto I mean, at least the philosophical idea

Unknown:

behind it is to democratize access to finance and, you know,

Unknown:

a step further access to investment but the reality is

Unknown:

that they still this lack of access, that's being perpetuated

Unknown:

because we are bringing these legacy thinking patterns into

Unknown:

this new industry. So, you know, in a nutshell, that's really the

Unknown:

value driven aspect of aluminum is to make sure that everyone

Unknown:

has equal access to crypto investment.

Lindsay Poss:

That was a really great summary and you've led me

Lindsay Poss:

perfectly into some of my next questions which mostly have to

Lindsay Poss:

deal with some of the issues that we are seeing. So I

Lindsay Poss:

definitely first want to get into the proof of attention

Lindsay Poss:

model and kind of How you are able to protect customers from

Lindsay Poss:

crypto scams? I do feel like there's a little bit of a, I

Lindsay Poss:

don't I don't know exactly what the word is, but there's

Lindsay Poss:

definitely an imbalance, at least in the news cycle of good

Lindsay Poss:

crypto projects versus bad crypto projects. And the bad

Lindsay Poss:

ones are just getting all the news. So I asked this question

Lindsay Poss:

with the caveat that I, I and you and hopefully our audience

Lindsay Poss:

all know that there's tons of really, really cool stuff

Lindsay Poss:

happening in crypto that is totally worth investing in. But

Lindsay Poss:

that unfortunately, people with very bad intentions often get a

Lindsay Poss:

lot of money as well. And we're still a little bit in that wild

Lindsay Poss:

west phase. So what are you doing? And how does the proof of

Lindsay Poss:

attention model work to protect customers from or retail

Lindsay Poss:

investors, I should say, from some of the less savory projects

Lindsay Poss:

that are happening.

Unknown:

So I am very excited to hear you talk about all the

Unknown:

problems in crypto because I can go on at length about this

Unknown:

topic. But to first answer your question about proof of

Unknown:

attention. And I think even more specifically, to begin with the

Unknown:

responsibility and the onus that rests on the shoulders of a

Unknown:

launchpad in order to protect investors, I have this analogy

Unknown:

that I used when I did an interview with hacker noon,

Unknown:

about the mangrove, you know, the estuary, where before a

Unknown:

project is ready to go out into the open sea, the big wide

Unknown:

ocean, where there's sharks and weird fish with, you know, scary

Unknown:

teeth, and all of those things that's out there to ready

Unknown:

yourself in, you know, this sort of nursery environment, which is

Unknown:

what a mangrove is in, in ecology. And I see the role of a

Unknown:

launchpad as really being that nanny in the nursery. So

Unknown:

projects have a lot on their shoulders, there's so much

Unknown:

happening in terms of setting up a new company, and building

Unknown:

product and building community and launching and running this

Unknown:

thing, and, you know, weathering all the storms that come with

Unknown:

it. So the role of a launchpad for a project is really to offer

Unknown:

a lot of support that is genuinely helpful.

Unknown:

Unfortunately, because of the nature of, well, again, humanity

Unknown:

launchpads have become a dime a dozen. And a lot of times, the

Unknown:

only role really is to conduct the sale, but there's no further

Unknown:

support. And, you know, they even require, for instance, that

Unknown:

a new project that has no community come with a very large

Unknown:

significantly numbered community, otherwise they will

Unknown:

not accept them. So this you can imagine perpetuates this trend

Unknown:

that we have of building vanity numbers on social media without

Unknown:

any substance behind them. I would say that for projects, you

Unknown:

know, a launchpad has a very, almost a sacred responsibility

Unknown:

to support these founders in making their vision a reality.

Unknown:

But even more so in terms of investors, retail investors, you

Unknown:

know, I speak to a lot of people, people who are in crypto

Unknown:

people who are not in crypto people who have dabbled in it.

Unknown:

And it's ironic, it doesn't matter which group it is, it

Unknown:

could be any one of those three, even people who work in crypto,

Unknown:

one of the top things that I hear over and over again, is

Unknown:

man, this is all so much to take in. So you know, there's so much

Unknown:

information out there, you don't know where to turn, you don't

Unknown:

know who to turn to you don't know who to trust. And so if you

Unknown:

put yourself in the shoes of a retail investor, you are parting

Unknown:

with hard earned money. And you really want to make sure that

Unknown:

this company that you invest in a is not a scam and of course be

Unknown:

you know, you can't guarantee the kind of gains you'll make

Unknown:

but you don't want to invest in let's say a losing project but

Unknown:

particularly in terms of scams. We've seen over the years, on

Unknown:

the one hand, how sophisticated scams can be but on the other

Unknown:

hand, how easy it actually is to spot them due diligence is

Unknown:

something that is so incredibly important. But if you look at

Unknown:

the type of scams that have taken place and how they fooled

Unknown:

even some of the top VCs, you know I sometimes cannot believe

Unknown:

that these things take place but at the same time I know that the

Unknown:

cycle is so fast moving maybe not now in the crypto winter but

Unknown:

in general you know this it's a it's a case of you snooze, you

Unknown:

lose. So if you get an opportunity you know the

Unknown:

dopamine sets in and you have to say now, yes or you have to

Unknown:

snooze and lose and you know, bad luck to you. So the

Unknown:

responsibility of a launchpad then to retail investors is to

Unknown:

really make sure that there's due diligence that takes place

Unknown:

is done well, diligently, because retail investors don't

Unknown:

have the time capacity, and sometimes the technical

Unknown:

expertise in terms of what to look for how to make sure that

Unknown:

something is really legit, versus it only seems legit. So,

Unknown:

you know, just to answer your question in terms of what role a

Unknown:

launch pad can play, to safeguard investors. But so

Unknown:

specifically in terms of the proof of attention model that we

Unknown:

have. So other launch pads, take this pop up store approach, the

Unknown:

community comes together for a specific idea or the specific

Unknown:

public sale, and then they disband again, until the next

Unknown:

time when you know, there's another sale. So we, on the

Unknown:

other hand, really believe that a community should be

Unknown:

permanently engaged. But this comes with a caveat because

Unknown:

first of all, why does a community have to be engaged on

Unknown:

a permanent basis, it demonstrates to projects that

Unknown:

investors have a certain value that's not just monetary,

Unknown:

because money in crypto is really easy to come by. So

Unknown:

there's always someone who you know, willing to give you and

Unknown:

not just willing, but there's always some someone begging you

Unknown:

to take their money, in fact, so money is not the issue. But what

Unknown:

other what other value can an investor bring to a project. So

Unknown:

when you are engaged, and when this kind of engagement that you

Unknown:

are engaged in is demonstratable and visible to a project, they

Unknown:

are much more likely to want you to invest in them. The funny

Unknown:

thing about all of this, the ironic thing is that investors

Unknown:

are already engaging on a daily basis, or on a weekly basis,

Unknown:

because as I said, it's a lot to make sense of, and people need

Unknown:

to stay up to date with what's happening. They need to, you

Unknown:

know, wrap their head around all these different things that are

Unknown:

happening, all the different concepts, technologies, new

Unknown:

companies, updates, developments. So they are

Unknown:

already taking these daily engagement actions, but on a web

Unknown:

to platform, whether it's Twitter, or Reddit, I don't know

Unknown:

discord, Telegram, etc. What we have done with the proof of

Unknown:

attention allocation mechanism is we've really gone the

Unknown:

gamified approach way. So there are regular interactions on our

Unknown:

platform, that will give you points, badges ranks, so the

Unknown:

engagement that you put in and that you've already been putting

Unknown:

in because this is what's needed, if you want to, you

Unknown:

know, stay abreast with whatever's happening, these

Unknown:

actions, these engagements lead to some kind of reward. And so

Unknown:

what this reward is beyond the points and the badges and the

Unknown:

ranks, etc, you have a dynamic investor profile. And this is

Unknown:

powered by dynamic NFT. So the technology really is dynamic.

Unknown:

And this acts almost as your passport across the whole Atlona

Unknown:

ecosystem. So what does passport control mean in the sense, so

Unknown:

when a project wants to list, whether it's the public sale, or

Unknown:

whether it's the private sale on at Luna, they have access to our

Unknown:

leaderboards, the data analytics that we gather all of these

Unknown:

things, the analytics, we have the leaderboards, it all

Unknown:

demonstrates, which investors are the most actively engaged,

Unknown:

what a project can then do is they can look at these active

Unknown:

investors. And instead of using these lotteries, or auctions as

Unknown:

a distribution mechanism, instead, they can specifically

Unknown:

offer their location to investors of their choice. Now,

Unknown:

this is significant because this happens in the private round. If

Unknown:

an institutional investor wants to invest in you, you know,

Unknown:

maybe this is not so typical in other industries. But in crypto,

Unknown:

there are more VCs wanting to invest than there are projects

Unknown:

offering investment. So a project can very, very easily

Unknown:

and does say no to certain VCs, because they don't feel like

Unknown:

this VC is going to add as much value. There's even been

Unknown:

projects where they've raised funds from VCs, VCs made certain

Unknown:

promises. And when they didn't deliver on these promises, these

Unknown:

projects would pay back their money they would refund them. So

Unknown:

value driven contributions are extremely important. But this

Unknown:

has not happened at the retail level, which is why at Unum is

Unknown:

really focused on instead of everything being random. We

Unknown:

believe that due diligence on one end should be extended to

Unknown:

the retail investor. But on the other hand, that investors

Unknown:

should be rewarded for the actions that they take. You

Unknown:

know, I find it so funny that especially in the web three

Unknown:

space, we always hear the beause that community is everything,

Unknown:

you know, community is all there is. And without community, we

Unknown:

have nothing. But if you look at the type of engagement that is

Unknown:

happening, even in web three, it's so one sided, and there's

Unknown:

no recognition. So we are still, you know, fostering that whip to

Unknown:

era mentality where the community needs to give to the

Unknown:

business to the company to the project, by showing up by giving

Unknown:

them attention. And as a result, well, what do they get back?

Unknown:

Nothing, they just part of the community and the community is

Unknown:

so important. So I think in this attention economy that we live,

Unknown:

in, which I mean, we all know, it's incredibly demanding. Yeah,

Unknown:

as a company, you cannot afford to take people's attention for

Unknown:

granted. Because if you do, it's the same as a relationship, they

Unknown:

will get sick of it, and they will go elsewhere to where they

Unknown:

are appreciated. So you're in a nutshell, and maybe that was not

Unknown:

such a small nutshell, this is what proof of attention is all

Unknown:

about.

Lindsay Poss:

I'm so sad that we're actually at the end of

Lindsay Poss:

this interview. Because this has been so fascinating for me to

Lindsay Poss:

learn. Kind of glad that we started off by talking about you

Lindsay Poss:

and your history, because we got into such a discussion on how

Lindsay Poss:

algorithm works. And kind of the methods behind it that I want to

Lindsay Poss:

I'm glad I got to know you first before we jumped into that,

Lindsay Poss:

because I can ask a bunch of questions and more about this.

Lindsay Poss:

I'm just going to quickly summarize our discussion. And

Lindsay Poss:

then we'll move into the very last section of the podcast. So

Lindsay Poss:

we started off by talking about you and talking about the

Lindsay Poss:

differences between technical and non technical backgrounds.

Lindsay Poss:

And what folks with non technical backgrounds can do.

Lindsay Poss:

This is very near and dear to my heart. Because I am also a non

Lindsay Poss:

technical person, I think one of the great pieces of advice that

Lindsay Poss:

you gave is that it is important to have an understanding of kind

Lindsay Poss:

of what you're getting into and, and what projects you're working

Lindsay Poss:

on. But you don't need to have an in depth knowledge of exactly

Lindsay Poss:

all the ins and outs of the crypto space. If you can talk

Lindsay Poss:

about it, if you can understand how the pieces work and how they

Lindsay Poss:

fit together, you don't necessarily need to understand

Lindsay Poss:

each individual piece to its absolute depths. There are so

Lindsay Poss:

many things that need to be addressed by a variety of skill

Lindsay Poss:

sets and knowledge that just kind of generally understanding

Lindsay Poss:

what's going on. It is enough, if you can't list the entire

Lindsay Poss:

technical stack. One other thing that you said was the thing

Lindsay Poss:

about crypto as the same as other industries, you need the

Lindsay Poss:

business infrastructure to build the industry, you need people

Lindsay Poss:

who are going to build run interact with the entire

Lindsay Poss:

industry, you don't need to understand technical poetry you

Lindsay Poss:

need to offer what you can offer, I wanted to bring that

Lindsay Poss:

technical poetry bit back in. We talked a lot about aluminum and

Lindsay Poss:

how it works. We talked about the evolution from coin

Lindsay Poss:

offerings, which got a lot of attention three or four years

Lindsay Poss:

ago and not usually not good attention. So that used to kind

Lindsay Poss:

of be the way that the that crypto companies or projects

Lindsay Poss:

would raise money from the public, there has been an

Lindsay Poss:

evolution in this funding process. Public sales are

Lindsay Poss:

perhaps the smallest portion of funding routes with things like

Lindsay Poss:

private investors, or self investment or other things

Lindsay Poss:

taking over. Thank you specifically mentioned private

Lindsay Poss:

investment being big there. That means that retail opportunity,

Lindsay Poss:

retail investors have fewer opportunities to invest in new

Lindsay Poss:

projects. They're all kind of competing for the same projects.

Lindsay Poss:

And they're often competing with people who have much deeper

Lindsay Poss:

pockets. So launchpads, what they do is serve as investment

Lindsay Poss:

platforms. They provide similar services as VC firms, but

Lindsay Poss:

instead connect retail investors to projects. And the goal that

Lindsay Poss:

you have at aluminum is to make crypto investment available to

Lindsay Poss:

all income levels, then we kind of got into discussion of some

Lindsay Poss:

of the issues on crypto. Again, I'm glad that we started talking

Lindsay Poss:

about you because I could keep going I think for another two

Lindsay Poss:

hours on this. And I think you could as well. And but we talked

Lindsay Poss:

to what we ended on when we talked about a lot in the past

Lindsay Poss:

20 or so minutes was the importance of engagement and of

Lindsay Poss:

protecting users on the platform. So the one way of

Lindsay Poss:

doing that is to build trust between people who are

Lindsay Poss:

interested in investing and those who are creating projects.

Lindsay Poss:

So to encourage this, what I've learned them does is build a

Lindsay Poss:

community based platform that rewards engagement. So as

Lindsay Poss:

investors discuss and analyze projects, they earn rewards for

Lindsay Poss:

their contributions for their input on those projects. When

Lindsay Poss:

companies then list they can choose to look at the

Lindsay Poss:

leaderboard and see who is engaged with their work and give

Lindsay Poss:

that investor the chance to invest rather than using a

Lindsay Poss:

lottery model, which as you said before, given that the pool for

Lindsay Poss:

retail investors is ever shrinking that lottery, you

Lindsay Poss:

stand to win fewer and fewer opportunities through the

Lindsay Poss:

lottery model because there's more and more competition for

Lindsay Poss:

fewer and fewer projects. So what this does when you are

Lindsay Poss:

actually rewarding engagement is it allows people to find

Lindsay Poss:

projects that they're passionate about and allows people who are

Lindsay Poss:

running those projects to connect with people who are

Lindsay Poss:

passionate about seeing them succeed. So it's kind of this

Lindsay Poss:

symbiotic relationship between Investors and people who are

Lindsay Poss:

actually building the project, it can be a little bit more

Lindsay Poss:

successful than finding VCs who are just anxious to throw their

Lindsay Poss:

money into crypto may not have as much incentive to actually

Lindsay Poss:

stay on or help build or help guide the project. So I think I

Lindsay Poss:

covered a lot of what we talked about, I wish that we had two

Lindsay Poss:

more hours to keep going. What I like to end on each podcast is

Lindsay Poss:

what I call a moment of reflection. And this is just a

Lindsay Poss:

chance for you to kind of look back on all the things that

Lindsay Poss:

you've done. And we've talked about some of them, I'm sure

Lindsay Poss:

there's many more. But I would love to ask you what is one

Lindsay Poss:

thing you would like to tell your younger self about getting

Lindsay Poss:

into the crypto and web three space and being successful?

Unknown:

First of all, I just want to compliment you. In our

Unknown:

in the therapeutic field, there's this concept of active

Unknown:

listening. But I think you have demonstrated today what active

Unknown:

interviewing is, because that was an incredible summary. And

Unknown:

I'm almost grateful that I didn't answer any of these

Unknown:

questions before we spoke, because I think there would have

Unknown:

been no need for this episode, if you had only summarized it.

Unknown:

That was an incredible summary, life is always so much easier in

Unknown:

the rearview mirror. I would say that, you know, because I wasn't

Unknown:

that young. When I got into the space, I definitely feel like

Unknown:

I've done a better job of things here than I did earlier in my

Unknown:

career. But of course, there are certain choices I wish I hadn't

Unknown:

made. It did teach me a lot. But you know, it's an icky feeling,

Unknown:

knowing that inadvertently, I have contributed to, for

Unknown:

example, scammy projects who take advantage of people in the

Unknown:

industry. So on the one hand, you know, I would say to my

Unknown:

younger self to better vet people and projects that I work

Unknown:

with not worry about passing up opportunities that doesn't sit

Unknown:

well with me, even if I can't express myself why that is I

Unknown:

think doing business or building a career. It's always a question

Unknown:

of aligning yourself with others who share the same values. And

Unknown:

in this sense, shared values means don't be a crook. So if

Unknown:

you fail to be intentional about your values, I think you

Unknown:

inevitably open yourself up to getting involved with you know,

Unknown:

all sorts of people. But the point here is that this happens

Unknown:

to the best of us. As I said, Life is always easier. In

Unknown:

hindsight is 2020. If you look back, you can see, okay, this is

Unknown:

you know, where I got where I went wrong and what I should

Unknown:

have done. So, really, I'm going to cheat a little bit here and

Unknown:

not make that my my number one advice to myself. I think I want

Unknown:

to just very briefly get back into this discussion we had

Unknown:

earlier about, you know, really the imposter syndrome, I guess

Unknown:

about entering a space and feeling like you have no

Unknown:

business being there. Because you don't know as much or you're

Unknown:

not as technical or as as much an expert at something as other

Unknown:

people. If I had advice for my younger self, it brings to mind

Unknown:

this idea or that this chord really that I think Eleanor

Unknown:

Roosevelt said, but no one can make you feel inferior without

Unknown:

your consent. And of course, this is easier said than done.

Unknown:

Because a if you are non technical or be I mean let's

Unknown:

face it, if you're a woman, we are notorious for undervaluing

Unknown:

underselling ourselves, it is difficult to, you know, kind of

Unknown:

believe in yourself. And yes, we can whip out all of these

Unknown:

cliches like fake it till you make it acting as if but in the

Unknown:

end, you get what you think you deserve. And so really, you can

Unknown:

have everything but if you don't believe in your own value and

Unknown:

your own worth, then the best opportunities will come and go,

Unknown:

and you won't be able to hold on to them. Because you cannot

Unknown:

reconcile what you have with what you believe you're

Unknown:

deserving of. So really, if I have a piece of advice for my

Unknown:

younger self, it would be that everything happens in our own

Unknown:

heads. So beauty is created in the head problems are created.

Unknown:

They're not to discount the actual legitimate systemic

Unknown:

problems on the outside. But there's so much that we are able

Unknown:

to do simply when we have our own internal business, let's say

Unknown:

straightened out. So you know, this inner work that you do as

Unknown:

you come into an industry or as you build up your repertoire in

Unknown:

an industry, like that's that core inside of yourself that you

Unknown:

strengthen this thing doesn't matter if it's if you're

Unknown:

technical or non technical. It really is all about learning to

Unknown:

own whatever inherent worth you have. And I mean every person,

Unknown:

every single person has something to offer. It really is

Unknown:

just about understanding what is the particular niche that you

Unknown:

fit into. And as a young person, I think I always wanted to get

Unknown:

to the finishing line of oh, I needed to find that answer of

Unknown:

what is my place in the world. And I needed to do it really

Unknown:

quickly. If I have any piece of advice, it's there. You know,

Unknown:

this will happen in due time. In the meantime, keep an open mind,

Unknown:

listen to your intuition, look out for opportunities, you know,

Unknown:

take it one day at a time, take it as it comes, because all will

Unknown:

fall into place. I just have to take the right next step.

Lindsay Poss:

I liked that because you kind of started off,

Lindsay Poss:

we started off with that discussion. And you had said

Lindsay Poss:

everyone has something to offer. So I think circling back on that

Lindsay Poss:

is is a perfect way to end. So I would like to compliment you on

Lindsay Poss:

your ability to keep a thread through a whole conversation. I

Lindsay Poss:

think that's great. Nadia, thank you so much for coming on. Where

Lindsay Poss:

can people find you follow you if you want to be found and

Lindsay Poss:

followed?

Unknown:

Yeah, that's definitely the question of the hour. I'm

Unknown:

not a big social media person anymore. But for sure, the best

Unknown:

would be on LinkedIn or Twitter. I also host a weekly podcast on

Unknown:

the future of NF. TS, just live on Twitter spaces every Tuesday,

Unknown:

or you can catch it on a podcast platform after the fact. And if

Unknown:

you are interested in working in web three, I would also watch

Unknown:

out for a YouTube series from add Luna that I'll be hosting,

Unknown:

which deep dives into, you know translating the ins and outs of

Unknown:

building a startup that's specific to web three. So in

Unknown:

that sense, definitely follow at LUNA also on Twitter or@luna.cc.

Unknown:

And yeah, Lindsay just absolutely want to compliment

Unknown:

you. It's like a ping pong ball going around now. But this has

Unknown:

been an absolute pleasure speaking to you. I want to mimic

Unknown:

your sentiment that I wish we had two hours, although it feels

Unknown:

like we would spend a lot of that time sort of critiquing

Unknown:

what is going on. But those conversations I believe, are

Unknown:

really important in order to highlight what's problematic. So

Unknown:

we can also talk about what the solutions are and how to build

Unknown:

them together. But in general, absolutely. Enjoyed this time

Unknown:

with you so much. Yeah, it's been a pleasure.

Lindsay Poss:

Yes, I totally agree. I also I was just able to

Lindsay Poss:

find you on Twitter. So for all the followers out there, it's

Lindsay Poss:

Nadia and a DJ A and then Buster, which is exactly how it

Lindsay Poss:

sounds. For all the listeners, be sure to leave those five star

Lindsay Poss:

ratings and reviews. I do see them and it makes me happy every

Lindsay Poss:

time. Check out other holodeck media podcasts, including meta

Lindsay Poss:

business for all the finance stories you could ever want in

Lindsay Poss:

business of esports. I'm on Twitter, Instagram and LinkedIn

Lindsay Poss:

and Lindsey poss. You can catch me Wednesday afternoons on the

Lindsay Poss:

business of esports live after show and you can catch this

Lindsay Poss:

podcast and your feed every week. See you next week.

Unknown:

Thanks for joining us here on meta woman. Make sure to

Unknown:

subscribe to this podcast everywhere you get your

Unknown:

podcasts, leave a five star review and tell your friends

Unknown:

family and colleagues all about us. Also, make sure to follow

Unknown:

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Unknown:

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About the Podcast

Seeking Alpha
Your sherpas in the wild worlds of crypto and dating
Join two women in their journeys through their careers, dating, and navigating emerging technology. We're here to learn together, be open about our lives (including the struggles and successes), have fun, and give a platform to some of the most interesting voices around the industry.
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