20. New York City is Marmite

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Welcome to the meadow woman podcast. We address the

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issues, opportunities and challenges facing women in the

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development of the metaverse the biggest revolution since the

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internet itself. Every week we bring you conversations with top

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female talent and business executives operating in the

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gaming and crypto industries. Here's your host Lindsey the

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boss POS, the meta woman podcast starts now.

Lindsay Poss: 00:00:24

Hello, and welcome to the meta woman podcast part

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of the holodeck media Podcast Network. I'm your host Lindsay

Lindsay Poss: 00:00:30

the boss POS and from struggle to success for covering it all.

Lindsay Poss: 00:00:33

To returning listeners. Thank you so much for tuning into the

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show week after week means a lot to me. And to our new listeners,

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welcome. I hope you enjoy. I'm really excited to introduce

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today's guests. I've been really looking forward to this

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conversation after initially meeting this person. It's just

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been so wonderful to dig into their background a little bit

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and learn more about what they do. So today on the podcast is

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Neto Whitney, Senior Vice President and Head of Marketing

Lindsay Poss: 00:00:58

for the Americas at Christie's, which is so cool. Netta Welcome

Lindsay Poss: 00:01:03

to the show. Thank you so much for coming on.

Unknown: 00:01:06

Oh, it's so exciting to be here. Thanks for having me,

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Lindsay.

Lindsay Poss: 00:01:08

Yeah, just to start off, I would love for you

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to give the audience a bit about yourself and your background. I

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know we share common career paths with both work and

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telecommunication and sexual health education. And then we

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both need to jump into tech somehow. So I would love for you

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to detail kind of how you got to where you were and what you're

Lindsay Poss: 00:01:25

passionate and excited about.

Unknown: 00:01:27

Yeah, it's not the most straightforward path into the

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art and auction world. I will admit, I spent the first 20

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years of my career in advertising in New York, San

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Francisco, London and Paris. And I started in San Francisco. It's

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really traditional and wonderful branding agencies like

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Interbrand, and made my way to New York and realized I was a

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New Yorker through and through and worked at multiple agencies

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in the city. I then met my boyfriend, now husband, and we

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moved to Paris together. And I worked in Paris in London for a

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bit. And my last stint was at an agency called RGA. It's an

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amazing blue chip digital agency. And I got the absolute

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pleasure and delight on working on such a variety of different

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kinds of businesses. And I think one of the the most thrilling

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things about working agency side is if you do it, right, you get

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to solve some of the most interesting brand problems out

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there. And you get to learn so much about different industries.

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It's kind of like your SWAT team, that black ops parachutes

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in and they're like, this is a problem that we either don't

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want to tackle or don't know how to tackle. And they like, Call

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in the agency, and you go in, and I did everything from

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helping, you know, ESPN, think about the redefinition of sports

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fandom to you mentioned sexual health and wellness, I worked

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with Planned Parenthood, which was an absolute gift and

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privilege, on thinking about how to address the sexual health

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deserts in middle America and how to get that information in

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the hands of young women and non binary teenagers who really

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needed answers that weren't just gossip and resources that were

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vetted. So we created a sexual health and wellness chat bot,

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and use technology for good. I had the opportunity to work on

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augmented reality, I got to help Uber think about how to create

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loyalty apps for both drivers and riders, which were really

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different communities that were incentivized by really different

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emotional loyalty triggers. So such really different amazing

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projects. I got to work on tippity and L'Oreal and a whole

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gamut of projects. And I ended my career at RGA. Working on the

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Verizon business and launching iPhones with them and working on

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Super Bowl campaigns. It was my first foray into the metaverse

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way back in the day in 2019, and 2020. And then I got a call from

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the team at Christie's. And I've been thinking of going client

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side for a while, you know, it's really exciting to get that

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phone call and get to solve some of these really hard problems.

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But I was left a little unfulfilled by not being able to

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see things from start to finish and to learn, iterate, and I

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really wanted to be able to, you know, do the whole thing. nose

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to tail and when I got the call from Christie's it was such an

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interesting time we were we were and still are in the midst of a

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global pandemic. I don't know what I get to stop saying. And

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then it's

Lindsay Poss: 00:04:47

also far away. Away.

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Like how long is a piece of string but it Arden

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auction is a very IRL scenario you know, everyone's seen those

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iconic scene. As a people raising the paddles and bidding

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in the frenzy of people, you know, raising the numbers and

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you want to see art up close, especially when you're paying

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millions of dollars for it. And we don't just sell art, we sell

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diamonds, we sell dinosaurs, we sell sculpture, we sell all

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sorts of amazing things. But the devil is in those details. So

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how do you take that experience? And how do you translate that

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into a digital world when that's the only option you really have.

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So it was such an interesting time to join the business. It

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struck a chord for me, you know, I've marketed so many things in

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my career. But the gift of being able to market these truly

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priceless one of a kind objects is a gift I wake up every

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morning thankful for It's so cheesy to say but it's it's the

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honest truth. So here I am, a year and a bit later, fully

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immersed in the world of art and auction. And that world of art

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and auction has taken me so many unexpected places. You know, I

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think I came into it thinking well, the pace might be a little

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slower, but maybe that's a welcome change, and I was so

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unimaginably wrong about the pace being slower. Three months

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after I joined, we sold an NFT for the earth shattering record

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breaking price of $69.3 million. It was the NFT price heard

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around the world that started kind of a tech rocket ship in

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the art world, which was really exciting. In March of this year,

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we announced a Marilyn Monroe that we are selling this May in

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New York at Christie's that is estimate on request, but in the

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region of $200 million, which will be the most expensive

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estimate for a painting of the 20th century ever on record and

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is poised to perhaps become the most expensive painting ever

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sold at auction. It's been a year and a bit of record

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breaking moments and fast paced moments, and I wouldn't change

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it for the world.

Lindsay Poss: 00:07:10

Those are awesome stories. So there's a lot to

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start with. I do want to point out that when you said oh, I

Lindsay Poss: 00:07:16

realized I was a native New Yorker through and through. So

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funny because I have the exact opposite experience visiting New

Lindsay Poss: 00:07:21

York. I'm like I am a New York City visitor through

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Yeah, New York is I like to say it's Marmite, you

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know, you either love it or you hate it. And you know, right

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away. There's no ambivalence about New York City. And I

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happen to love the flavor.

Lindsay Poss: 00:07:38

Yes. Marmite is a good a good comparison, where

Lindsay Poss: 00:07:41

it's like every once in a while you think, oh, maybe I'll try it

Lindsay Poss: 00:07:43

again. Maybe it'll be different. But I keep trying anyway. That's

Lindsay Poss: 00:07:51

so funny. Well, there's so much to dig into there. One thing I

Lindsay Poss: 00:07:55

want to talk about is Christy's pivot to online, just because I

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read a statistic that said that during 2020s, one sale, which I

Lindsay Poss: 00:08:02

believe is kind of a big event of the year for Christie's if

Lindsay Poss: 00:08:05

I'm not mistaken,

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instead of one sale was a sale that we did in 2020. It

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was the first of its kind, it was a global relay auction

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between New York, London, Hong Kong and Paris. And it was a

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massive virtual undertaking for us.

Lindsay Poss: 00:08:21

That's what I was reading about is that 50% of the

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works that were auctioned were sold without the buyer even

Lindsay Poss: 00:08:27

having seen them, which is a I would imagine a big shift in the

Lindsay Poss: 00:08:31

way that the business was run. So can you just tell me what,

Lindsay Poss: 00:08:36

what things that you all are keeping moving into the future,

Lindsay Poss: 00:08:40

about the virtual auctions? What you learned what, what is maybe

Lindsay Poss: 00:08:45

an improvement over the in person experience, or what is a?

Lindsay Poss: 00:08:49

I don't know what the word for opposite of improvement is, but

Lindsay Poss: 00:08:52

a deeper movement in the virtual experience. Or, as we sort of

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maybe emerged from the pandemic, like what are you keeping? What

Lindsay Poss: 00:09:00

are you getting rid of? How are you using virtual experiences to

Lindsay Poss: 00:09:03

supplement your in person stuff as it picks back up?

Unknown: 00:09:07

It's a great question. And it's a great luxury to have,

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right? Because we we've learned so much from the data that we've

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received, and the data we've received is shocking in so many

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ways, and I am a firm advocate of digital. But even I was

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surprised by the adoption of our client base and how many of our

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clients are really comfortable with the digital tools and

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services that we've offered, how many of them are engaging in

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online auctions, how many of them bid and transact online?

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Because we're talking about really high price points. When

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you talk about the one sale, you know, those objects are millions

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of dollars. They're not a lipstick, they're not, you know,

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a pair of shoes, they are priceless works of art and that

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takes quite a leap of faith. And I think some of that leap of

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faith is the 250 plus years of reputation that Christie's has

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established Um, and you know, the ability to I've seen a lot

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of these works of art up close in museums before they reach our

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hands sometimes. So what can I say? I think what we've learned

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is the optionality in digital has been a true additive

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experience for our clients, being able to give them the

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option to view an auction, in a live stream format that has the

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same effect as a TV program. I mean, our live streams are award

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winning, produced live streams, they're not just like one guy on

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a shaky camera in the back of the room, and being able to

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provide them that option if they don't want you or can't travel.

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I think that is that is huge. And I think that is something

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that our clients are grateful for, and will continue to want,

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I think, offering them tools like superzoom photography, like

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augmented reality, the ability to take a piece of art, or even

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a sculpture, that's huge, and you can't transport it and see

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what it looks like in your backyard. But with augmented

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reality technology, you can, I think that's something we won't

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be walking away from anytime soon. I think we've learned

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that, you know, II catalogs actually are really valuable to

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our clients, and from a sustainability perspective are

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really important to our corporate goals. You know, we

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don't want to be producing some of these heavy bound books that

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are behind me that we used to produce all the time, because

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there are implications on you know, the world that we don't

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want to continue to perpetuate. So we've, we tried to move to a

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digital catalog format, which has worked quite well. So

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there's a lot of things that, you know, we are seeing that we

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will continue to do, I think, you know, will we be fully

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virtual in our auctions? No, we're so excited to welcome

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people back into our auction rooms at 20 Rockefeller Center

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and King Street and around the world. We had live auctions in

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the fall last year, they were so much fun to go to. I'm looking

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forward to our live auctions in May in New York this season. We

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had folks in our auction rooms in you know, London earlier this

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year. So I think there's definitely going to be a hybrid

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approach where we use digital technology to be additive to the

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IRL experience instead of replacing the IRL experience.

Lindsay Poss: 00:12:24

Gotcha. Well, I hadn't thought about, you know,

Lindsay Poss: 00:12:28

I feel like as if I personally get lost a lot in the VR side,

Lindsay Poss: 00:12:32

and have lost touch with what's exciting about AR. But the

Lindsay Poss: 00:12:36

ability to visualize things before you purchase them in home

Lindsay Poss: 00:12:40

is really special. I mean, that's, that's a new, that's a I

Lindsay Poss: 00:12:45

guess, past three to five, maybe even less than five, maybe more

Lindsay Poss: 00:12:49

like two to three years and experience that I can imagine in

Lindsay Poss: 00:12:52

the industry, you're and makes a huge difference in the way

Lindsay Poss: 00:12:55

clients think about purchasing and what they think about

Lindsay Poss: 00:12:58

purchasing if they can sort of place it. Yeah, it's like having

Lindsay Poss: 00:13:02

a dressing room for free almost or, yeah, that's

Unknown: 00:13:07

that. And you know, we use technology as well. We've

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done full home walkthroughs and VR, which is really exciting.

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And we actually we've used hologram technology, which is

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really exciting. Yeah. In March, we had a frenzies NFT sale where

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we had the proto hologram machine here in 20 Rockefeller

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Center. And so people were able to see the NF T's kind of come

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to life in 3d via hologram technology. So we're always, you

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know, people think, an auction house and they think, you know,

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255 years old, and they think, you know, we're not going to be

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keeping up with the times, but we're really pushing that

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envelope from a technology perspective. So yeah, we're

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always experimenting with the new and the latest.

Lindsay Poss: 00:13:52

Yeah, so speaking of, I would love to hear more

Lindsay Poss: 00:13:55

about how you moved into NF T's and the people sale. And that

Lindsay Poss: 00:13:58

was obviously Record breaking and got a lot of news, which I

Lindsay Poss: 00:14:03

think a lot of the news it was it was mixed, right? It was good

Lindsay Poss: 00:14:05

and bad with a lot of people who are fairly resistant to the idea

Lindsay Poss: 00:14:09

of NF T's and digital ownership. But how are you all thinking

Lindsay Poss: 00:14:13

about it in on on your side, or the people that are coming in to

Lindsay Poss: 00:14:16

the auction houses, I'm imagining that they're excited

Lindsay Poss: 00:14:19

about it, which is a good indication that eventually, the

Lindsay Poss: 00:14:23

negative press will subside and digital ownership will become

Lindsay Poss: 00:14:27

more of a thing in the common vernacular. But I would just

Lindsay Poss: 00:14:30

love to hear about how you all got interested in NF T's how did

Lindsay Poss: 00:14:34

that happen?

Unknown: 00:14:36

Yeah, and so funny enough, everyone knows us for

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people as our first NF T cell but our first NF T cell was in

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2020 with a work by Robert Alice, the artist, and there was

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code in the work and we actually NFT some of the code that was

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embedded in the work. The people sale though was not even

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arguably is our most well known and ft sale probably is the The

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most well known NFC sale, if I might be so bold, and, you know

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that came came to us through a lot of hard work that the team

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here at Christie's did, we have an extremely passionate,

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curious, thoughtful group of specialists who had been

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researching the space been really curious about the space

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and engaging with the NF T space. And I think curiosity and

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engagement and the NF T space are two of the most important

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tools for success in that space, and really listening and thought

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that it made a lot of sense. I mean, I think we are primarily

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at our core about art in all of its format. So whether that

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format is paint brushes or pixels, we are a platform for

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great art to come to bear and to succeed. And we just couldn't

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ignore this groundswell around NF T's. And so we partnered with

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makers place and we did some digging into this artist people

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aka Mike Winckelmann. And he was nothing if not prolific, I think

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his first 5000 days is an opus, where he, you know, created

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artwork every day for 5000 days. And not only that, but then to

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put that artwork out there into social media, which is notorious

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for abject criticism, and kind of bare your soul out there and

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let people critique you anonymously. I have no idea how

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he does it, he must have the thickest skin of all of us. And

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I think, you know, love it or hate it all artists objective,

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you have to admire the grit that went into a project like that.

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And we did. And so a group of us came together, and we decided we

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wanted to move forward with it. And not only do we want to do

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the NFT sale, we want to do the sale, accepting crypto, which

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was another yet another hurdle. We never wanted to market to a

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whole new audience. Even

Lindsay Poss: 00:17:02

thought about that. It's so obvious, but Yeah,

Lindsay Poss: 00:17:06

completely new system to implement.

Unknown: 00:17:08

And I was purchased in eath. And to market it to a

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whole new group of people. You asked the very thoughtful

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question, you know, who are the buyers and the buyers for our

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NFT works of which we sold in 2021? Over $150 million with NF

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T's. They are overwhelmingly the crypto native audience. They are

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digital creators. They are not our traditional art audience

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that has kind of swung the pendulum into the crypto and

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digital world with a few exceptions. When we sold some

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Andy Warhol NF T's when we sold some more traditional artists

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that had dipped their toes into the NFT space. We saw a little

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bit of crossover, but by and large, they are folks from the

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from the digital art and NFT space. So we had to market to

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them, which was a big challenge.

Lindsay Poss: 00:18:03

It was going to be my exact question was you as a

Lindsay Poss: 00:18:05

marketer, how were you thinking about reaching these folks?

Unknown: 00:18:08

Well, it was in the heyday of clubhouse, remember

Unknown: 00:18:11

when clubhouse was all

Lindsay Poss: 00:18:13

very brief moment in time.

Unknown: 00:18:15

I know what it was like, oh my god, we have to be

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on clubhouse. How are we gonna get channeled? Invited was like

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the thing. And so we were there. We were on club palace. We were

Unknown: 00:18:28

doing clubhouse chats like, you know, a couple of times a week

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and we were getting invited to different club houses to talk

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about it. And I just remember when the sale was happening. We

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were all to did a clubhouse hearing people like live chat

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about the sale and the numbers that were being breached and it

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was so exciting. But yeah, we we were on clubhouse we got really

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engaged on Twitter because that is where our crypto native

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community is. A few of us are on Discord kind of on different

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channels. But it's more personally and not like as a

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firm and we just stay engaged with the community. You know, I

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do a lot of speaking a lot of our specialists do a lot of

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speaking we go to NF T and yc and f t now Denver NFT ala like

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we you know, we get a lot of these conferences and, and

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panels and make sure that we are out there talking the talk and

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also helping to demystify what NF T's are so that it's not only

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accessible to our crypto native NFT collectors, but also more

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traditional art collectors. I was on a panel at the Aspen

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Institute not too long ago, which was attended solely by

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traditional art collectors trying to understand more about

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the NFT space I think a lot of people are interested in afraid

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to ask. So you know, making sure we're educating people about the

Unknown: 00:19:49

space.

Lindsay Poss: 00:19:50

Yeah, not from the art world but from my own

Lindsay Poss: 00:19:52

personal world. I have so many friends who are just not

Lindsay Poss: 00:19:56

interested in crypto and yet all I know many, many people who

Lindsay Poss: 00:20:00

Like Funko Pops, and I came up with a personal rule that if you

Lindsay Poss: 00:20:02

own a Funko Pop, you're not allowed to make fun of anyone

Lindsay Poss: 00:20:05

who purchases. To me, right? It's, you know, there's there's

Lindsay Poss: 00:20:10

a whole, a whole crowd of people out there looking to collect and

Lindsay Poss: 00:20:15

be part of a community in various ways and various

Lindsay Poss: 00:20:18

expressions, and with everything else moving online, I'm not sure

Lindsay Poss: 00:20:20

why that type of community building, collecting, being part

Lindsay Poss: 00:20:25

of something purchasing assets wouldn't be also moving online

Lindsay Poss: 00:20:30

in some form or fashion. So agree. Yes.

Unknown: 00:20:32

And I think and I didn't answer this part of your

Unknown: 00:20:35

question, but you mentioned digital ownership. And it's a

Unknown: 00:20:38

really important part of the equation, right? Because when we

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sold to people, and kind of every time we sell an NF, T,

Unknown: 00:20:47

someone makes the argument about right, save, right, click Save.

Unknown: 00:20:53

Yep. And to that argument, I say, you know, we're selling,

Unknown: 00:21:00

Andy Warhol is Marilyn Monroe, it's gonna sell for hundreds of

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millions of dollars, you can go buy a poster out of it at Barnes

Unknown: 00:21:08

and Noble. And they are not the same thing. And so

Unknown: 00:21:13

fundamentally, physical, and digital, it all comes down to

Unknown: 00:21:17

the question of ownership. And you have to subscribe to the

Unknown: 00:21:21

idea that there is something special and important and

Unknown: 00:21:25

meaningful about ownership, whether in a digital realm or in

Unknown: 00:21:29

a physical realm. And I believe in that. And I think the people

Unknown: 00:21:32

that are in the NFT community, believe in that. And not only do

Unknown: 00:21:35

they believe in the concept of ownership, but they also believe

Unknown: 00:21:38

kind of in this greater Metaverse concept that in a

Unknown: 00:21:44

future where we spend more and more of our time in some

Unknown: 00:21:48

meaningful way, we digital environment, owning a lot of

Unknown: 00:21:53

these kind of digital artifacts will be akin to owning a lot of

Unknown: 00:21:59

the traditional artifacts that Christie's is known for selling.

Unknown: 00:22:03

So if you own you know, Jean Michel Basquiat when he was an

Unknown: 00:22:08

up and coming artist, kind of what you're doing when you own a

Unknown: 00:22:12

crypto punk right now, when a small percentage of Yeah, it's

Unknown: 00:22:16

still really, really expensive youth but it's only in 20 years.

Unknown: 00:22:22

So

Lindsay Poss: 00:22:24

I know, it was so silly to me that that, you know,

Lindsay Poss: 00:22:26

we've translated so much of our lives online already. I don't

Lindsay Poss: 00:22:29

think anyone wants to go back to you know, paper billing and

Lindsay Poss: 00:22:32

sending in bills. So why wouldn't other types of

Lindsay Poss: 00:22:35

ownership I wouldn't other types of assets, why wouldn't other

Lindsay Poss: 00:22:37

types of just community because a lot of NF T communities, I

Lindsay Poss: 00:22:41

sort of think of almost like sports teams, you know, you're

Lindsay Poss: 00:22:45

you're purchasing an asset, you're becoming part of

Lindsay Poss: 00:22:47

something you're talking, you're trading with other fans, you're

Lindsay Poss: 00:22:50

discussing us drops, it's so similar to me to any other type

Lindsay Poss: 00:22:54

of fandom. And there's collectibles associated with it

Lindsay Poss: 00:22:58

the thing with those collectibles associated with any

Lindsay Poss: 00:23:00

traditional sports team, a greater instead of buying a

Lindsay Poss: 00:23:02

jersey, or you're buying an NFT of something that that team has

Lindsay Poss: 00:23:06

created, I can't understand well, I suppose I can sort of

Lindsay Poss: 00:23:11

understand the resistance, because there's been a lot of

Lindsay Poss: 00:23:14

scammy and scummy things that have gone on. And there's been

Lindsay Poss: 00:23:18

unfortunately only press attention on those, I think. So

Lindsay Poss: 00:23:21

hopefully, in the next you know, one to five years, the press

Lindsay Poss: 00:23:26

attention can can sort of refocus. And people can become

Lindsay Poss: 00:23:29

more comfortable with this idea. I think there's just a lot of

Lindsay Poss: 00:23:31

negativity surrounding it. It's like, either you take the time

Lindsay Poss: 00:23:35

to sit down and know it or you just read headlines and think

Lindsay Poss: 00:23:39

there's a lot of scammy stuff happening which there is and

Lindsay Poss: 00:23:43

just write it all off whole whole sale hold Full Tilt.

Lindsay Poss: 00:23:47

That's the word I'm looking for. So kind of silly. Um, but

Lindsay Poss: 00:23:51

anyways, I want to getting back to our discussion. How what is

Lindsay Poss: 00:23:55

the balance that you see happening in the future between

Lindsay Poss: 00:23:58

digital sales and real world sales at Christie's? As in I

Lindsay Poss: 00:24:03

imagined the digital is growing. But do you ever see that

Lindsay Poss: 00:24:06

overtaking the real world ownership sales of goods?

Unknown: 00:24:11

I do not. And I say that with confidence, based on

Unknown: 00:24:16

the fact that you know, I said we did $150 million in NF T

Unknown: 00:24:19

sales last year for perspective. We did 7.1 billion in total.

Lindsay Poss: 00:24:24

Yeah. We're not there yet.

Unknown: 00:24:27

So you know, I think, I think as with anything we sell

Unknown: 00:24:31

at Christie's, we will always continue to sell the most

Unknown: 00:24:36

covetable, most rare, most exclusive and fts. And I expect

Unknown: 00:24:43

that that will still keep us somewhere in the realm of that

Unknown: 00:24:47

100 and $50 million mark for the foreseeable future. I'm not you

Unknown: 00:24:52

know, if I had a crystal ball, I wouldn't be sitting here. I'd be

Unknown: 00:24:54

sitting in my private jet somewhere or on my private

Unknown: 00:24:57

island somewhere, but I think Did you know it's gonna take a

Unknown: 00:25:02

long long while for NF T's to reach the level of maturation

Unknown: 00:25:09

where there's enough of them out there at enough of a price point

Unknown: 00:25:15

to capture the tipping point in sales, because I think, not only

Unknown: 00:25:20

in masterpiece are but in, you know, jewelry in rare books and

Unknown: 00:25:27

manuscripts and old master paintings and Asian art, you

Unknown: 00:25:30

know, we do a whole raft of other items that comprise our

Unknown: 00:25:35

sales. And so I think, you know, to put into perspective, that

Unknown: 00:25:39

100 and $50 million in NFT, sales couldn't be one painting

Unknown: 00:25:43

and an evening sale for us at this level. So it's a lot. But

Unknown: 00:25:48

it's also a little sometimes.

Lindsay Poss: 00:25:50

Right? Well, that's what I'm wondering when I

Lindsay Poss: 00:25:53

agree with you, I don't think it's going to be a quite a long

Lindsay Poss: 00:25:56

while before you get before digital ownership surpasses real

Lindsay Poss: 00:26:00

world goods, I just wonder how quickly or slowly that is going

Lindsay Poss: 00:26:06

to grow into a easily noticeable portion, you know, like, when

Lindsay Poss: 00:26:12

when does it reach the 1 billion mark, or the 2 billion mark? Or

Unknown: 00:26:15

what I would say is, I think there's over don't quote

Unknown: 00:26:21

me on this, but I think there's quite a large amount of sales, I

Unknown: 00:26:25

want to say over a billion dollars of sales being

Unknown: 00:26:27

transacted on the other platforms like nifty gateway,

Unknown: 00:26:31

open sea and the rest of it. So I think digital ownership is

Unknown: 00:26:35

quite a expansive marketplace, I would just say that at the top

Unknown: 00:26:42

echelon, yet and established volume, because we're we're

Unknown: 00:26:48

dealing with a volume of art that has been established over

Unknown: 00:26:51

the last, you know, I would say 500 years to go around rare art

Unknown: 00:26:59

and object, I think there is a huge volume of NF T sales in the

Unknown: 00:27:06

hundreds of millions, if not billions happening. But that's

Unknown: 00:27:10

at all levels. And at Christie's we're only ever to transact at

Unknown: 00:27:13

the top level.

Lindsay Poss: 00:27:15

That makes sense. I'm wondering when that economy

Lindsay Poss: 00:27:19

is going to, it's already developing. But I'm wondering

Lindsay Poss: 00:27:23

when it's going to get out of its nascent stages, just because

Lindsay Poss: 00:27:28

we also have a lot more people who are a lot more connected in

Lindsay Poss: 00:27:31

ways that are conducive to building an NFT economy. More so

Lindsay Poss: 00:27:35

than you know, we've talked about 500 years, but there

Lindsay Poss: 00:27:38

wasn't necessarily a huge cadre of highly talented artists,

Lindsay Poss: 00:27:44

either, you know, you were talking about maybe the top

Lindsay Poss: 00:27:48

point 2% of art and artists out there. And I'm just I wonder how

Lindsay Poss: 00:27:53

that's going to work with all of us being digitally inclined now.

Lindsay Poss: 00:27:57

And especially younger generations? Like how quickly

Lindsay Poss: 00:28:00

you know, instead of taking 500 years, I wonder if it'll take

Lindsay Poss: 00:28:03

100 Or yeah, 150, or what that's gonna look like. But I want to

Lindsay Poss: 00:28:08

get more into this sort of supply problem. Because I saw a

Lindsay Poss: 00:28:13

recent listing about the sale of an NFT of the first edit to

Lindsay Poss: 00:28:17

Wikipedia, immediately following its establishment. And that

Lindsay Poss: 00:28:21

featured interactive element that allowed the purchaser to

Lindsay Poss: 00:28:23

recreate the experience of developing Wikipedia, which I

Lindsay Poss: 00:28:26

thought was so cool. And I thought it was pretty neat that

Lindsay Poss: 00:28:28

the NFT outsold the original computer that Wikipedia was

Lindsay Poss: 00:28:31

created on. I think that does make sense in terms of Wikipedia

Lindsay Poss: 00:28:35

as a digital products of the digital good would outsell a

Lindsay Poss: 00:28:38

physical good. But it's still it's still interesting to note

Lindsay Poss: 00:28:40

that the digital good did markedly better than the

Lindsay Poss: 00:28:43

physical good. And we've seen similar in FTAs. You know, Jack

Lindsay Poss: 00:28:47

Dorsey's first tweet, sold, the New York Times article, it was

Lindsay Poss: 00:28:50

part of an experiment sold as an NF. T. So we talked about this

Lindsay Poss: 00:28:54

volume problem, what kinds of different things are you excited

Lindsay Poss: 00:29:00

to see? So we we definitely have art and artwork as a type,

Lindsay Poss: 00:29:04

definitely have this sort of like, I don't know exactly how

Lindsay Poss: 00:29:06

to call it but tech bookmarking? That's sort of a type of NFT.

Lindsay Poss: 00:29:11

But are there any other ones, you know, partners with luxury

Lindsay Poss: 00:29:14

fashion brands? Or? I don't know anything? Is there anything out

Lindsay Poss: 00:29:17

there that you think like, oh, I can't wait until this sort of

Lindsay Poss: 00:29:20

becomes a digital good or I'm really excited to see the way

Lindsay Poss: 00:29:22

this digital good develops?

Unknown: 00:29:25

Yeah, that's a great question. So we sold that NFT of

Unknown: 00:29:28

Wikipedia for 750 grand and that was that was that was Biglan it

Unknown: 00:29:32

was really exciting. What I can't wait to see NF T is my

Unknown: 00:29:36

COVID vaccination card that I carry around little scraps of

Unknown: 00:29:42

paper everywhere. It's like everyone has that important

Unknown: 00:29:44

papers or where it's like your social security card and like

Unknown: 00:29:47

your it's like do not laminate but we all like you know, live

Unknown: 00:29:50

in fear of losing it and it's like my marriage certificate, my

Unknown: 00:29:53

kids birth certificates like, you know, all these forms that

Unknown: 00:29:57

are just like tattered pieces of paper that I use. usually end up

Unknown: 00:30:00

having to pay the government to issue me a new one because I've

Unknown: 00:30:02

lost it lives in our special paper drawer. I can't wait to

Unknown: 00:30:08

see all of those become digital goods on the blockchain. I think

Unknown: 00:30:11

there are a number of different applications out there that we

Unknown: 00:30:16

haven't even scratched the surface have we sold last year,

Unknown: 00:30:20

our first luxury NFT that was in the form of an NF T of the

Unknown: 00:30:24

bulletproof vest that Kanye West wore during his live performance

Unknown: 00:30:29

of his Donta album or toe into that space. But I see luxury

Unknown: 00:30:33

brands are really leaning into Metaverse, specifically when it

Unknown: 00:30:37

comes to gaming. Because there's already user behaviors built in

Unknown: 00:30:40

there right? In gaming, people are already really comfortable

Unknown: 00:30:43

with the purchase of goods and services in gaming. They're

Unknown: 00:30:45

really comfortable with the idea of skins in gaming. And so to be

Unknown: 00:30:49

able to kind of like up level that into a luxury. A luxury

Unknown: 00:30:54

skin makes total sense. And I think luxury brands are starting

Unknown: 00:30:59

to catch on to that there's like going to be a Metaverse arm to

Unknown: 00:31:03

Fashion Week. experiments going on that I think will be really

Unknown: 00:31:08

interesting. Um, and, you know, there's been lots of great

Unknown: 00:31:14

applications for sports fandom and sports memorabilia and NF

Unknown: 00:31:19

T's. What am I I think for me, I'm I'm most looking forward to

Unknown: 00:31:25

the utility aspects of it.

Lindsay Poss: 00:31:26

I believe that answer? Yeah, I

Unknown: 00:31:28

think, you know, like, there's fun stuff out there. And

Unknown: 00:31:31

like Ray and I have like, some NF T's in my wallet that have

Unknown: 00:31:35

kind of promised this ongoing membership aspect that it's like

Unknown: 00:31:40

once you have access to this initial token, kind of all of

Unknown: 00:31:44

our drops and subsequent builds, you will have access to and

Unknown: 00:31:47

that's exciting from like a kind of like mystery grab bag

Unknown: 00:31:51

perspective. And like I'm part of a community and I don't

Unknown: 00:31:53

really know how it's gonna evolve. But I'm, I bought into

Unknown: 00:31:56

it, that's exciting. But utility, like, Give me something

Unknown: 00:32:01

that instead of holding, like all these membership, papers, I

Unknown: 00:32:05

can just have it on the blockchain never have to think

Unknown: 00:32:07

about it again. That's, that's, that's what will make this girl

Unknown: 00:32:10

happy.

Lindsay Poss: 00:32:10

That's so funny to me. Because one of the things

Lindsay Poss: 00:32:13

that I worked on, or that I one of the people that I talked to

Lindsay Poss: 00:32:17

at a previous job was about cartitles, and putting them on

Lindsay Poss: 00:32:20

the blockchain to make the sale and transfer of cars

Lindsay Poss: 00:32:23

significantly easier. For everyone involved. Yes, I also

Lindsay Poss: 00:32:27

am looking forward to the utility aspect. One of the early

Lindsay Poss: 00:32:31

people that I followed, we started really talking about the

Lindsay Poss: 00:32:33

NFT space in 2019. And mentioned the exact same thing about

Lindsay Poss: 00:32:36

marriages as well imagine call recording your marriage and

Lindsay Poss: 00:32:39

blockchain instead of having to send in a marriage license. So

Lindsay Poss: 00:32:42

yes, I do think that there is a huge practical side that is

Lindsay Poss: 00:32:46

untapped. And I heard someone describe this as a, what could

Lindsay Poss: 00:32:51

be considered a boring transition into web three, and

Lindsay Poss: 00:32:54

to how we think about our online presence and to how we collect

Lindsay Poss: 00:32:58

and use digital goods should be probably a little bit more

Lindsay Poss: 00:33:00

boring than the current news suggests. I agree. But I like

Lindsay Poss: 00:33:04

you hope that all those practical matters that can be

Lindsay Poss: 00:33:07

addressed by this technology begin to get addressed with this

Lindsay Poss: 00:33:10

technology. I want to backtrack for just a second, though,

Lindsay Poss: 00:33:13

because we had a previous call where you talked a lot about

Lindsay Poss: 00:33:17

your work ethic, and where your background, your family, where

Lindsay Poss: 00:33:21

you came from, and how it made a big impact to you to think about

Lindsay Poss: 00:33:27

you being in the position you're in and being a role model for

Lindsay Poss: 00:33:30

other younger girls and women who may not have always seen

Lindsay Poss: 00:33:33

people who looked like you. And I know that you mentioned that

Lindsay Poss: 00:33:34

you didn't see very many people that looked like you in the

Lindsay Poss: 00:33:36

positions that you have been in, and will continue to be in. But

Lindsay Poss: 00:33:41

I wanted to address that really quick because this is the man or

Lindsay Poss: 00:33:43

woman podcast. So I wanted to just ask you what it's going to

Lindsay Poss: 00:33:48

actually look like, you know, we have all this future tech, all

Lindsay Poss: 00:33:51

this exciting stuff. But how are we going to make sure we start

Lindsay Poss: 00:33:54

truly diversifying the workforce at all levels and getting more

Lindsay Poss: 00:33:57

role models in there and getting more people involved?

Unknown: 00:34:01

Yeah, I mean, it's so important, Lindsay, and I think

Unknown: 00:34:05

my parents were immigrants to this country. And you know, I

Unknown: 00:34:09

think that that is such a special journey and such a

Unknown: 00:34:13

special part of my story and a part that I always tell people,

Unknown: 00:34:17

I am, you know, just celebrated the Persian New Year in March,

Unknown: 00:34:22

and I celebrate my culture, and it's something I have two young

Unknown: 00:34:26

girls that I'm gonna raise them with as well. And I take I take

Unknown: 00:34:30

pride in that. And I want everyone from any walk of life,

Unknown: 00:34:35

whether it be cultural diversity, whether it be you

Unknown: 00:34:39

know, gender diversity, whether that be, you know, whatever it

Unknown: 00:34:44

is not however you identify, to feel like there's a path for

Unknown: 00:34:47

you, and to feel like you have an authentic place in

Unknown: 00:34:50

leadership. And so, for me, I heard someone say it so

Unknown: 00:34:54

beautifully. I was on a panel for a National Women's Day. And

Unknown: 00:34:58

the woman on the panel with me said it's simple In a model

Unknown: 00:35:00

messiness, and I could not agree with that more, I think it is

Unknown: 00:35:04

not something that we can just pretend that our lives fit into

Unknown: 00:35:11

these neat little boxes. And that I'm working at a and that

Unknown: 00:35:16

at home. I'm mom Mehta, and I'm wife Neda, and I'm Iranian,

Unknown: 00:35:20

American meta, and I'm, you know, all these different

Unknown: 00:35:22

versions of that I am all those versions of meta wrapped into

Unknown: 00:35:25

one ball. And I think I'm at my best when all those versions of

Unknown: 00:35:29

meta come to the party. And so I try and be as authentically me

Unknown: 00:35:36

as I can. And I try and encourage those around me to be

Unknown: 00:35:40

as authentically them as they can by modeling that messiness

Unknown: 00:35:44

by saying, You know what, I gotta go, I told you, I need to

Unknown: 00:35:48

leave this, this podcast a few minutes early, because my

Unknown: 00:35:51

parents are in town, and I want to go show them the gallery

Unknown: 00:35:53

downstairs. And that's really important to me. So I gotta go

Unknown: 00:35:56

do that today. And you know, I'm going to be really excited about

Unknown: 00:35:59

that and proud about that. And some days, I need to leave a

Unknown: 00:36:02

meeting early to go pick up my kids because I need to show up

Unknown: 00:36:05

as mom Netta. And then I hopped back on a call later on that

Unknown: 00:36:08

evening, because I gotta be working at and, you know, it's,

Unknown: 00:36:11

it's all a part of who we are. And I think modeling that

Unknown: 00:36:15

messiness, instead of trying to pretend there's any attainable

Unknown: 00:36:18

perfection is really important. And then I think when you see

Unknown: 00:36:21

those women around you, letting them be comfortable and

Unknown: 00:36:25

confident with them, talking about that messiness, and then

Unknown: 00:36:28

also celebrating them and promoting them. Like, I don't

Unknown: 00:36:31

just want to like high five ladies, I want to give ladies

Unknown: 00:36:34

raises, I want to give ladies opportunities, I want to give

Unknown: 00:36:37

ladies speaking roles I want to give ladies, like, you know, all

Unknown: 00:36:42

of those great things that people saw in me that helped me

Unknown: 00:36:45

get to where I am, I want to give those opportunities to

Unknown: 00:36:49

people, because it's one thing to say, like I celebrate you,

Unknown: 00:36:51

but it's another thing to say, You know what I'm gonna sit this

Unknown: 00:36:53

pitch out. And I'm going to pull my colleague into this pitch,

Unknown: 00:36:56

because she's got a really powerful voice that I know that

Unknown: 00:36:58

if you guys see that you will see her in a different light.

Unknown: 00:37:01

And that's actually doing something with my voice instead

Unknown: 00:37:04

of just saying she's great.

Lindsay Poss: 00:37:06

Yeah, I think that's so important. I think

Lindsay Poss: 00:37:08

it's important to because, unfortunately, we do sort of

Lindsay Poss: 00:37:10

carry the burden sometimes of forcing attention onto our

Lindsay Poss: 00:37:14

female colleagues, and especially women of color. And

Lindsay Poss: 00:37:17

this is a theme that's come up over and over, but it does take

Lindsay Poss: 00:37:20

bravery for people to look and listen to people who don't look

Lindsay Poss: 00:37:24

like them. It takes a lot of it takes bravery to step outside of

Lindsay Poss: 00:37:27

your comfort zone. And it takes the wherewithal to realize when

Lindsay Poss: 00:37:31

you need to do so. And sometimes having that extra push of like,

Lindsay Poss: 00:37:36

paying attention time is the push that's necessary. So yes, I

Lindsay Poss: 00:37:40

love, love the idea of standing up for women. And I hope as we

Lindsay Poss: 00:37:44

move into more of a Metaverse and, and NFT, VR, and AR all

Lindsay Poss: 00:37:48

those spaces that we can have more women creators, and writers

Lindsay Poss: 00:37:51

and in positions of power and all of that. Well, with that in

Lindsay Poss: 00:37:56

mind, I know you have to run soon. So I'm going to just

Lindsay Poss: 00:37:59

quickly summarize our conversation. We started with an

Lindsay Poss: 00:38:02

awesome, awesome discussion about how Christie's has moved

Lindsay Poss: 00:38:05

into online, just so cool. I mean, the whole, I have not been

Lindsay Poss: 00:38:10

this close to the luxury auction industry in my life. So

Lindsay Poss: 00:38:13

extremely fun for me to learn about that and to learn about

Lindsay Poss: 00:38:17

how you all adapted during the pandemic. And some of the

Lindsay Poss: 00:38:19

virtual tools that you're gonna wind up keeping in your arsenal,

Lindsay Poss: 00:38:22

like VR and AR experiences is really neat. Especially think

Lindsay Poss: 00:38:26

it's cool that you can use AR to model some of the things that

Lindsay Poss: 00:38:28

people might be purchasing in their own homes. It's very, very

Lindsay Poss: 00:38:32

intelligent use of the technology. We also talked a lot

Lindsay Poss: 00:38:36

about NFT sales. One thing that I thought was really interesting

Lindsay Poss: 00:38:39

was about how it kind of brought in a completely different crowd

Lindsay Poss: 00:38:42

for you to market to, as it were, and how it's a crowd of

Lindsay Poss: 00:38:48

full of cryptocurrency natives, so not necessarily the typical

Lindsay Poss: 00:38:52

art crowd, but definitely a little bit different. And now

Lindsay Poss: 00:38:54

you're getting some cross contamination between the

Lindsay Poss: 00:38:56

typical art and the crypto natives and back and forth,

Lindsay Poss: 00:38:59

which is pretty neat. We also talked about how NF T's can be

Lindsay Poss: 00:39:03

used for practical and impractical things, which I

Lindsay Poss: 00:39:05

think is really important to note. There's a lot of

Lindsay Poss: 00:39:08

negativity surrounding the technology itself, when really

Lindsay Poss: 00:39:10

the options are pretty boundless at this point, so I think I

Lindsay Poss: 00:39:14

think I can confidently say that both of us are pretty excited to

Lindsay Poss: 00:39:16

see what happens within the NFT space in the next 510 20 years.

Lindsay Poss: 00:39:21

And the last thing we talked about was making sure that we

Lindsay Poss: 00:39:23

boost women colleagues, it can be hard, I'm in some of the

Lindsay Poss: 00:39:27

environments we're in for women to get attention. So we have to

Lindsay Poss: 00:39:30

not only talk about it, but be about it and put women forward

Lindsay Poss: 00:39:33

for things when they have earned and deserve it. So I like to end

Lindsay Poss: 00:39:38

every episode with one special section called a moment of

Lindsay Poss: 00:39:41

reflection. It's just a chance for you to look back on your

Lindsay Poss: 00:39:44

career. offer any pieces of advice you might have to women

Lindsay Poss: 00:39:47

who are looking to take the same nonlinear path that you did, or

Lindsay Poss: 00:39:51

are in bits and pieces of it. But what is one thing you would

Lindsay Poss: 00:39:54

like to tell your younger self about getting into the tech

Lindsay Poss: 00:39:58

industry and being successful? It's

Unknown: 00:40:02

not specific to tech, but I think just specific to

Unknown: 00:40:05

life, there's two pieces of advice I would give my younger

Unknown: 00:40:08

self and everyone's younger self. The first is take the

Lindsay Poss: 00:40:11

risks,

Unknown: 00:40:12

I think, you know, women tend to be more risk

Unknown: 00:40:17

averse. And we tend to take the safer path, myself included. And

Unknown: 00:40:22

there's lots of rewards and the risks and you do regret the

Unknown: 00:40:26

risks you don't take. And right now I see so many different and

Unknown: 00:40:34

interesting paths to success. If you take NF T's for an example,

Unknown: 00:40:38

that is not a linear and traditional path to financial

Unknown: 00:40:42

success, but those who are taking those risks are finding

Unknown: 00:40:46

oftentimes success. And I want those risk takers to also be

Unknown: 00:40:49

women. Much like the traditional art world, it is a highly white

Unknown: 00:40:54

male worlds in the NFT space. And so there are so many lovely

Unknown: 00:40:59

female led projects, you know, you have archived from world of

Unknown: 00:41:01

women, Lisa from Boss beauties, you know, Varvara, les from

Unknown: 00:41:05

flowergirl, NF T's. They're amazing projects out there, but

Unknown: 00:41:09

they are few and far between. And we have more female voices

Unknown: 00:41:12

and NF T's, or whatever it is take those risks. And the second

Unknown: 00:41:16

thing I would say is you are the CEO of your own career, no one

Unknown: 00:41:20

is going to be a better advocate for what you need than you are.

Unknown: 00:41:24

So anytime you can speak up for yourself. Ask for the raises,

Unknown: 00:41:29

ask for the opportunities, have a voice at the table, you don't

Unknown: 00:41:33

ask you don't get. And you know, I think it is really important

Unknown: 00:41:38

to push beyond that discomfort of an initial ask into an

Unknown: 00:41:43

uncomfortable conversation that can result in a better

Unknown: 00:41:47

opportunity, more pay more chances, more ways to grow, or

Unknown: 00:41:53

at least the acknowledgement that you're ready for that next

Unknown: 00:41:55

step. And it's really, really important to be a vocal advocate

Unknown: 00:41:59

for your own career. Because no one else out there is going to

Unknown: 00:42:03

do it for you, as well as you can do it for yourself. There

Unknown: 00:42:05

might be people out there advocating for you. But no one's

Unknown: 00:42:08

going to do it for you better than you can. So be your own.

Unknown: 00:42:11

See.

Lindsay Poss: 00:42:11

Yeah. I love that. Thank you so much for coming on.

Lindsay Poss: 00:42:15

Where can people find you follow you follow your work, follow

Lindsay Poss: 00:42:18

Christie's

Unknown: 00:42:20

my instagram handle is super complicated. It's my

Unknown: 00:42:23

maiden name. It's at NAMM Iranian and a m i RANIAN. But

Unknown: 00:42:29

that's where all my good content is. And I would love for anyone

Unknown: 00:42:33

to follow me there and see all the great stuff we do at

Unknown: 00:42:35

Christie's see all the great stuff I do with my passion and

Unknown: 00:42:38

my girls and my life. And that's where all the good stuff is. And

Unknown: 00:42:41

please feel free to DM me. I'm always happy to grab a coffee or

Unknown: 00:42:45

have a chat with anyone who's trying to find their path.

Lindsay Poss: 00:42:49

Oh, thank you so much. For all of our listeners.

Lindsay Poss: 00:42:52

Be sure you leave those five star ratings and reviews. Check

Lindsay Poss: 00:42:55

out other holodeck media podcasts including meta business

Lindsay Poss: 00:42:58

and the business of esports. I'm on Twitter, Instagram and

Lindsay Poss: 00:43:01

LinkedIn at Lindsay at Lindsay POS. And you can catch me

Lindsay Poss: 00:43:05

Wednesday nights on the business of esports live after show. This

Lindsay Poss: 00:43:08

podcast will be in your feed every Tuesday. We'll see you

Lindsay Poss: 00:43:10

next week.

Unknown: 00:43:11

Thanks for joining us here on meta woman. Make sure to

Unknown: 00:43:14

subscribe to this podcast everywhere you get your

Unknown: 00:43:16

podcasts, leave a five star review and tell your friends,

Unknown: 00:43:19

family and colleagues all about us. Also, make sure to follow

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metta TV on all socials to get more of the best Metaverse

Unknown: 00:43:26

content anywhere. Tune in every week for another episode of